Episode 159
Ep. 159: CurraNZ/Carolyn Carter aka LA Triathlete
In this episode:
The Medical Mailbag features a discussion of a supplement derived from New Zealand black currant; CurraNZ. It is being marketed as a solution for training and racing in the heat and as a means to improve recovery. What does the evidence say? Plus, an interview with confessed "slow-pro" Carolyn Carter. Carolyn, a professional triathlete and social media influencer, shares her journey from competitive swimming to the world of triathlon, emphasizing the importance of community and support in the sport. As she navigates the challenges of training while working full-time and maintaining her online presence, Carolyn opens up about the negative comments she receives and how she chooses to respond to them with grace and humor. Through her experience, she highlights the need for a more inclusive and approachable atmosphere in triathlon, encouraging others to join the sport without fear of judgment. The conversation also touches on the significance of goal-setting, whether it’s for race times or personal achievements, and the joy that comes from small victories. Carolyn's story is not just about competition; it's about fostering a positive environment and lifting each other up in a sport that can often feel intimidating.
Segments:
[06:48]- Medical Mailbag: CurraNZ
[35:55]- Interview: Carolyn Carter
Links
Transcript
The really specific hate comments I get are from men who often have their.
Speaker B:Family in their profile picture, wife and.
Speaker A:Kids, and I could say anything to those people.
Speaker A:It's like if your child saw this comment of you bullying a random girl on Instagram, would they be embarrassed?
Speaker A:Because if I saw my dad doing that, I'd be humiliated.
Speaker A:So just think about that.
Jeff Sankoff: ,: Jeff Sankoff:I'm your host, Jeff Sankoff, the Tridoc an emergency physician, triathlon coach, and multiple Ironman finisher coming to you as always from beautiful sunny Denver, Colorado.
Jeff Sankoff:I want to take a moment to wish all of my American listeners a very happy Thanksgiving.
Jeff Sankoff:I hope that you're all enjoying a relaxing holiday weekend filled with friends and family and food.
Jeff Sankoff:And of course, a turkey trot to help burn off some of those calories.
Jeff Sankoff:Personally, I'm on the last day of a diving vacation with my family in French Polynesia and will be heading home tomorrow for a short week before leaving again for the other side of the world.
Jeff Sankoff:This time I'm off for New Zealand, where I will be finishing off my season with the 70.3 World Championships in Taupo.
Jeff Sankoff:This is an event that I personally am really looking forward to and I know that many others are as well.
Jeff Sankoff:I started my training this year all the way back on New Year's day, and after 11 and a half months I'm definitely looking forward to a small break.
Jeff Sankoff:Now, like many of you, I am not going to stop training completely, but I have learned over the years how important it is to take some time to decrease the volume and intensity at the end of the year in order to rest and recover and more than anything, give yourself a much needed mental break.
Jeff Sankoff:It can be difficult to continually motivate yourself day in and day out to do all of the training, and personally I find it much easier to do so over the course of of the year.
Jeff Sankoff:If I give myself a bit of a breather around this time, it's a good time for it too, especially if you're in the Northern Hemisphere.
Jeff Sankoff:After all, it's cold and dark and it's the holidays.
Jeff Sankoff:Who wants to be dedicating all the time and energy to training when it could be spent with your friends and family?
Jeff Sankoff:Now, if you're a Patreon supporter of the program, then you may have heard the bonus episode that I recorded with professional triathlete Laura Siddle that released last week.
Jeff Sankoff:In it, she alluded to the long season as one of the things that can impact professionals as well as age groupers.
Jeff Sankoff:When we discussed her picks for the men's and women's races in Taupo, she was careful to note that those athletes who have raced the most this year may be the ones who falter in New Zealand, even though they have done the best up to that point.
Jeff Sankoff:It's a reminder that pushing yourself hard, while it can be very beneficial for your results, it can do so maybe only to a point.
Jeff Sankoff: rededicate to a new season in: Jeff Sankoff:So be a smart athlete and dial it back a bit in the next month or so.
Jeff Sankoff:Enjoy some of the things that you may have sworn off during your hard training during the summer and reconnect with people you may have lost touch with.
Jeff Sankoff:Whatever you do, take the time to indulge in some serious self care and don't feel even the slightest bit guilty.
Jeff Sankoff:I promise it will be more than worth it.
Jeff Sankoff:On the show today, the medical mailbag has a different New Zealand tie in unrelated to the World Championships.
Jeff Sankoff:Not too long ago I got an email from the Feed about a new product they were promoting that promised some pretty impressive results for athletes who train and race in the heat.
Jeff Sankoff:New Zealand Blackcurrant is a fruit very rich in all kinds of organic compounds that are associated with the claims that are being made.
Jeff Sankoff:And according to the feed, the supplement in which the fruit is found called Curranz C U R R A N Z has research to back it up.
Jeff Sankoff:Juliette Hockman and I take a look into what exactly that research is, what the evidence says and doesn't say, and that's coming up in just a few moments later I'm joined by a very entertaining and talented young woman who lives and trains in Los Angeles.
Jeff Sankoff:Carolyn Carter is a self proclaimed slow pro in triathlon and has a huge following on Instagram as the latriathlete we connected on that platform after I saw her response to one of the trolls that she too frequently has to deal with and I wanted to know more about her and why it is that we seem to feel the need to tear each other down so much instead of lift each other up.
Jeff Sankoff:We had what I thought was a great conversation and you can hear that in just a short while.
Jeff Sankoff:Before we get to all of that, I want to take a moment to thank all of my Patreon supporters of this podcast, including brand new subscriber Michael Morrissey, who decided that for about the price of a cup of coffee per month he could sign up to support this program and in doing so get access to bonus interviews and other segments that come out about every month or so.
Jeff Sankoff:The most recent of those episodes was released last week and features the aforementioned interview with professional triathlete and member of the Athletes board of the the PTO, Laura Siddle.
Jeff Sankoff:Laura helps me look forward to the 70.3 World Championships in New Zealand and gives her picks for the win on the men and women side.
Jeff Sankoff:That bonus episode and others like it are available on a private feed for Michael and all of my other subscribers.
Jeff Sankoff:Plus for North American subscribers who sign up at the $10 per month level of support, they receive a special thank you gift in the form of a BOCO Tridoc Podcast Running Hat that I am displaying right now on the YouTube video.
Jeff Sankoff:For those of you who are watching, if you're listening, you'll just have to imagine how awesome it looks.
Jeff Sankoff:And for those of you who are going to be in Taupo for the World Championships, I'm going to be bringing along a few of these, so I hope that you will look me up while you're there.
Jeff Sankoff:I will be glad to bestow upon you one of these awesome running hats.
Jeff Sankoff:The other way to get one, of course, is to become a Patreon supporter.
Jeff Sankoff:And this is a reminder for those of you listening that I hope you will leave a rating and a review wherever you get this pop podcast.
Jeff Sankoff:I promise you they are immeasurably helpful in improving the visibility and also the listenability of this podcast.
Jeff Sankoff:And if you're watching on YouTube, do me a favor, hit the like button and subscribe to the channel.
Jeff Sankoff:Whatever you're doing, I hope that you will consider visiting my patreon site@patreon.com tridocpodcast look into what it takes to becoming a supporter so that you can get access to those bonus interviews and maybe the cool Tridoc podcast Running Hat as well.
Jeff Sankoff:As always, thank you in advance just for considering.
Juliet Watson:It'S time again for the Medical Mailbag.
Juliet Watson:I'm joined by Juliet Watson.
Juliet Watson:If you're watching on YouTube, you can see both of us.
Jeff Sankoff:Hello.
Juliet Watson:And if you're listening in, it's nice to be in your ears.
Juliet Watson:Juliet, how are you?
Speaker B:I'm very well, and you?
Jeff Sankoff:I'm doing great.
Juliet Watson:I'm doing great since I last saw you.
Juliet Watson:Uh, of course, if you're listening, if you heard the last episode, then you know that this is being recorded just moments later but of course, for all of you folks, it's a couple of weeks later and we are back with the Medical Mailbag.
Juliet Watson:The reason we're recording them in such close proximity is because both Juliet and I are traveling quite a bit in November.
Juliet Watson:I believe when this comes to air, you will be back, but I will be leaving something.
Speaker B:But our commitment to you is such that we are recording these to make sure that you have good content to listen to while we're gone.
Juliet Watson:And not an episode will be missed.
Juliet Watson:Exactly.
Speaker B:Not an episode will be missed.
Juliet Watson:Well, that's right, since we're here for the Medical Mailbag, Juliet, what do we have to chat about on this episode?
Speaker B:So one of the products that you have actually been known to endorse, and not endorse in a sort of financial, commercial way, but just to believe in, is tart cherry juice.
Speaker B:And we over at Lightsport sometimes tease you quite a bit about that.
Speaker B:Now, everybody, our avid tart cherry juice consumers.
Speaker B:But now here comes along this new magical fruit that is, I think, is.
Denise Haslick:A little bit of a tart cherry.
Speaker B:A JV tart cherry juice, and.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:A wannabe, an aspiring tart cherry juice.
Speaker B:And it is called Curranz C U R A capital N, capital Z.
Speaker B:And it talks a lot about this powerful little berry from New Zealand called the black currant, which, as a descendant of Brits, I feel like I've seen black currant tea and blackcurrant juice a lot of my life.
Speaker B:But now, all of a sudden, it has these incredible recovery properties and we're supposed to be consuming it in great quantity.
Speaker B:What did you find out about this?
Speaker B:And how did you come across this product?
Juliet Watson:Yeah, this is one that I just.
Juliet Watson:Like all of you out there, I get inundated with all kinds of emails and social media advertisements for all kinds of stuff.
Juliet Watson:And this year I actually signed up to be part of.
Juliet Watson:I can't remember what the group is like, the 1% of the feed, or I can't even remember what it's called, but basically it's like the Amazon prime for the feed.
Juliet Watson:So we get free shipping and we get like a percentage off on everything.
Juliet Watson:But it also gets me a lot more advertising emails.
Juliet Watson:And so I got one last week and I'm just going to read from it because when I read this email, I found myself feeling very incredulous.
Juliet Watson:Just bear with me.
Juliet Watson:It's a little bit long.
Jeff Sankoff:So here we go.
Juliet Watson:This is straight from the email I got from the feed.
Juliet Watson:It's more than finding the right fuel or adapting to Higher carbs.
Juliet Watson:Studies have shown that 90% of athletes have experienced heat induced GI distress.
Juliet Watson:And I should also mention, just to interrupt here, that this email came to me in the week in the run up to the Hawaii Ironman.
Speaker B:I was going to say that it came out right at Kona.
Speaker B:Exactly, exactly.
Juliet Watson:So it was very timely.
Juliet Watson:When we train hard, especially in warm temperatures, blood flow is redirected from the gut to help regulate our body temperature.
Juliet Watson:The result is cramps, nausea, or worse.
Juliet Watson:I and I is the person who sends these emails is somebody named Matt.
Juliet Watson:I don't actually know who Matt is, but anyways, Matt at the feed is the I.
Juliet Watson:In this email I've started taking something that has not only eliminated this problem for me, but it's also ramped up my recovery time and overall performance.
Jeff Sankoff:Here we go.
Juliet Watson:Few red flags already.
Juliet Watson:It's called Currans.
Juliet Watson:This is an extract supplement made from a powerful little berry from New Zealand called black currant.
Juliet Watson:Black currant is a superfood containing one of the highest densities of polyphenols and anthro anthocyanins.
Juliet Watson:These antioxidants dramatically increase blood flow and reduce inflammation.
Juliet Watson:New research proves that this supplement is incredibly effective in protecting the gut during exercise in the heat.
Juliet Watson:This study is showing black currant extract might be a simple effective solution.
Juliet Watson:It's also been proven to reduce muscle damage, soreness and fatigue.
Juliet Watson:End quote.
Juliet Watson:That is a lot of promises packed into a what, two paragraphs?
Juliet Watson:Holy.
Speaker B:I wonder if Christian Blumenstel was taking this right before he got on the bike.
Jeff Sankoff:Oh my.
Juliet Watson:Not a selling point there.
Speaker B:So many promises.
Juliet Watson:Yeah, when I saw this email I actually wrote write back and I said these are a lot of really bold claims.
Juliet Watson:I would love to see some references.
Juliet Watson:And after a couple of days I did get a response and they basically pointed me to the Curran's website's science page that listed a few references.
Juliet Watson:And Cosette Rhodes got to work, dug into those references, did a literature search and came up with a few more things.
Juliet Watson:And here's what we found.
Juliet Watson:So polyphenols, We've mentioned those before.
Juliet Watson:You mentioned tart cherry juice.
Juliet Watson:Polyphenols are one of the chemicals that are found in a huge abundance in tart cherry juice.
Juliet Watson:The other one, the other reason tart cherry juice is something that I continue to use is because it's incredibly concentrated in melatonin.
Juliet Watson:And in fact, my son, who I love talking about, Adam, the cross country runner who just competed in state today, he has been using tart cherry juice to augment his sleep and has actually found it to be beneficial for him.
Juliet Watson:So even young and old can benefit from tartrate juice.
Juliet Watson:But I digress.
Speaker B:Let's go back.
Juliet Watson:We're not talking about that.
Juliet Watson:Yes, New Zealand black currant, very high in polyphenols, so similar to tart cherry juice.
Juliet Watson:But then also these anthocyanins.
Juliet Watson:What are anthocyanins?
Juliet Watson:These are a similar kind of chemical.
Juliet Watson:They are actually a different category of polyphenols and they have a wide range of health benefits, including a reduction in cardiovascular disease, anti inflammatory effects and even anti cancer activity.
Juliet Watson:And one of the ways that it seems that it might work to help with endurance athletes is that it upregulates the expression of an enzyme called nitric oxide synthase.
Juliet Watson:Now you may remember nitric oxide synthase from way back when we talked about beetroot juice.
Juliet Watson:I saw you recognize it immediately there, Julia, immediately.
Juliet Watson:Beetroot juice?
Juliet Watson:Yeah.
Juliet Watson:Beetroot juice is very rich in nitrates and bypasses this enzyme.
Juliet Watson:So instead of having our body synthesize nitric oxide, beetroot juice gives us the precursors and we actually formulate a lot of it.
Juliet Watson:And nitric oxide is basically a vasodilator.
Juliet Watson:It allows for dilation of the arterials going into the muscle and theoretically at least improves oxygen delivery to the muscles.
Juliet Watson:Blackcurrant extract in the form of this product called currans is saying theoretically that the polyphenols will help with anti inflammatory effects.
Juliet Watson:They will help with all of the things that we saw with tartary juice.
Juliet Watson:And then also the anthocyanins may help by improving blood flow to your muscles.
Juliet Watson:So a lot of potential here.
Juliet Watson:We'll get to the heat stuff a little bit later, but let's first look at performance because there were some studies there, found a couple of small studies.
Juliet Watson:One of them was on time trial cyclists.
Juliet Watson:And I want to point out a very important limiting factor for the chemicals found within currens and that is that it seems to be similar to what we saw with beet red juice.
Juliet Watson:Very time sensitive.
Juliet Watson:And that is to say almost all of the effects seem to be limited to the first 60 to 90 minutes.
Juliet Watson:Not 100% clear to me why.
Juliet Watson:Maybe it's because it gets broken down very quickly, maybe because it is not in abundant.
Juliet Watson:I just don't know why, but it seems like it's got a pretty short time life.
Juliet Watson:When they did this time trial for cyclists, they actually looked at a 16 kilometer time trial and what they did was they had people do seven days of lead in with this New Zealand blackcurrant supplement.
Juliet Watson:They took 105 milligrams of anthocyanins.
Juliet Watson:I'm not sure exactly what that translates to into the actual extract.
Juliet Watson:And then they had them ride the 16.1 kilometers, which is 10 miles.
Juliet Watson:They did a 10 mile time trial and found that neither different dosages or the dosing regime resulted in faster performance times compared to a placebo, which is interesting.
Juliet Watson:There was another study that did the same thing that seemed to suggest that there was a 2.4% improvement in that same 16.1 mile cycling time trial.
Juliet Watson:So two studies, one found a positive effect of 2.4%, the other one found no effect.
Juliet Watson:So not really sure what to make of it.
Juliet Watson:We then found a study on running again short distance because we're talking about pretty limited time effect of this stuff.
Juliet Watson:So 5k run.
Juliet Watson:They looked at people getting this New Zealand blackcurrant versus placebo.
Juliet Watson:In this case the supplement was not given as a lead in like over seven days, but this time it was given two hours before the run test was done.
Juliet Watson:And here they found that, and these were not like the fastest runners in the world.
Juliet Watson:These were people who ran sub 25 minute 5Ks, but they were not running sub 20.
Juliet Watson:So in this case, when they ran a 5 kilometer time trial compared to placebo with black current, they took off about 3% which is not nothing.
Juliet Watson:It wasn't huge.
Juliet Watson: The actual time was: Juliet Watson:So I don't know, over 30 seconds, it's still something.
Juliet Watson:It wasn't exactly clear where this was coming from though, because they measured a bunch of physiologic metrics, they bought a bunch of cardiovascular things and they couldn't really find any major differences between placebo and the black currant.
Juliet Watson:But they were thinking maybe this just shows that the muscles are being better oxygenated.
Juliet Watson:Because as I said, this idea of the increased nitric oxide synthase, possibly, but they didn't know why there would be a difference here.
Juliet Watson:Then I found a couple of other sort of case studies which are not to be considered powerful research.
Juliet Watson:Instead they're just supposed to be, it's, hey, we did, we found this with one or two people.
Juliet Watson:It's interesting.
Juliet Watson:You might want to do more research.
Juliet Watson:They had an ironman athlete cycling for four hours in whom New Zealand Black current improved performance.
Juliet Watson:They had two ultra runners in whom New Zealand Black Current improved performance.
Juliet Watson:And both of those papers they said, look, these are interesting, but all it really means is we need to see more research with robust protocols and to date that hasn't been done.
Juliet Watson:So not really sure what to make of all that.
Juliet Watson:So that's performance.
Juliet Watson:Very limited body of evidence there.
Juliet Watson:Maybe small benefit for running, cycling, maybe not.
Juliet Watson:Certainly nothing earth shattering.
Juliet Watson:How about recovery?
Juliet Watson:Recovery also unfortunately has some conflicting evidence and nothing really dramatic.
Juliet Watson:The first of the studies we found was consumption of New Zealand black currant extract improves recovery from exercise induced muscle damage in non resistance trained men and women.
Juliet Watson:A double blind randomized trial.
Juliet Watson:So this is the kind of study we want to see.
Juliet Watson:Nobody, the investigators and the people in the study did not know if they were getting placebo or the New Zealand black currant.
Juliet Watson:They were randomized to one or the other.
Juliet Watson:The only thing is it's not really comparing to the kind of athletes that we're speaking to.
Juliet Watson:These are people who were completely non trained and then they did some weight training, specifically the biceps.
Juliet Watson:And then they would basically say after doing these exercises, how sore are you?
Juliet Watson:And then after giving them New Zealand Black current in a lead up to the exercises, were they able to recover and do serial exercises the next day kind of thing.
Juliet Watson:And basically what they found was using New Zealand blackcurrant prior to and following a bout of eccentric exercise.
Juliet Watson:So weight training, it actually seemed to help with muscle damage and improve functional recovery.
Juliet Watson:So it makes sense.
Juliet Watson:We've seen that with tart cherry juice, right?
Juliet Watson:The polyphenols and tartra juice seem to help with recovery.
Juliet Watson:It makes sense that New Zealand blackcurrant extract might as well.
Juliet Watson:However, that is a very kind of controlled study on one muscle in non athletes.
Juliet Watson:Another study that actually includes the scientific director of this company, Curran's is titled.
Juliet Watson:I love the title because it's the Jeff Sankoff title Writing school no effect of New Zealand black currant extract on recovery of muscle damage following running a half marathon.
Juliet Watson:I don't even think I need to tell you what it says.
Juliet Watson:It's right there.
Juliet Watson:Opera but this is a really important point to bring up because I've talked many times about how we very rarely see negative studies published, right?
Juliet Watson:And this is one of those times that we're seeing, and not only are we seeing a negative study published, but we're seeing a negative study published by the scientific director of this company, which is fascinating.
Juliet Watson:So that, that to me lends a lot more credibility to the positive studies because it means that they're willing to share with you their negative studies as well.
Juliet Watson:Kudos to them at any rate.
Juliet Watson: Basically this is: Juliet Watson:Eight of whom were women.
Juliet Watson:They ran a half marathon.
Juliet Watson:Their finishing times were not earth shattering.
Juliet Watson:These are people who ran about two hour half marathons.
Juliet Watson:They were given New Zealand black currant or placebo for seven days prior and two days following.
Juliet Watson:And then they had to and then they had measures of markers, we've talked about these before, but markers of cell damage, markers of inflammation.
Juliet Watson:And then they also had to do some exercises afterwards to see if they had recovered well.
Juliet Watson:And it turns out there was no difference whatsoever between those who got placebo and those who got the New Zealand black currant.
Juliet Watson:So don't know.
Juliet Watson:You know, we have one paper that seems to suggest it helps.
Juliet Watson:Another paper that says does not.
Juliet Watson:The paper that says it does not is a more real world paper because it's actual athletes doing a half marath on.
Juliet Watson:So I don't know.
Juliet Watson:Hard to know what to take from all of this.
Juliet Watson:But then we get to what that Feed article was talking about.
Juliet Watson:That's heat performance.
Juliet Watson:Now right before I get to the article in question, I want to talk a little bit about why it is that heat is a problem for us.
Juliet Watson:And it was mentioned a little bit in the email.
Juliet Watson:But Juliet, have you, I knew you've, I know you've never raced in Kona, but have you done any races in high heat, high humidity environments?
Speaker B:High humidity, no high heat, sure.
Speaker B:But it's a dry heat, so that's a totally different battlefield.
Speaker B:But obviously this is a huge factor for our athletes who, well, race a Kona but also race in Asia, race in the Southeast part of the United States, et cetera.
Speaker B:And it's a big part of their preparation and a big part of how we expect them to perform and what their challenges might be on race day.
Juliet Watson:And how do you counsel your athletes that are going, I know you just had an athlete perform a Kona, so what, what is your advice to those athletes when they're going to these races twofold?
Speaker B:One, to the extent that you can do a heat preparation protocol and that's easier for some people than for others depending on where they live and what their resources are and how much space they have in their house and everything else.
Speaker B:One is to do a pre race heat prep protocol and the other is just to have very realistic expectations about their pace or time goals for race day.
Speaker B:We can see over and over again if the same athlete racing in a cool environment versus a hot environment or a hot and sticky environment and the all things else held equal, the performance in that hot environment is just going to be much, much slower.
Juliet Watson:The Heat adaptation is huge.
Juliet Watson:You, you mentioned it and I've talked about it on this program before.
Juliet Watson:There are various ways to do it.
Juliet Watson:Exercising in a warm room, extra clothing on that can help, but it's not perfect.
Juliet Watson:Sauna protocols have been shown to be quite effective.
Juliet Watson:Two week lead in increasing the amount of time you spend in a dry or wet or preferably both.
Juliet Watson:Saunas can also help adapt the body and then getting to the destination as soon or as early before the race as possible.
Juliet Watson:We see all the pros showing up in Kona at least a week before.
Juliet Watson:Many of them are there for a month before to try and adapt to the heat and humidity.
Juliet Watson:And we know that our body will make physiologic adaptations to the heat, but we, our bodies need time in order to do that.
Juliet Watson:So the longer you could spend in that warm environment before the race, the better.
Juliet Watson:But like you said, most of us can't do that.
Juliet Watson:We are working and we don't have the luxury of being able to be down there.
Juliet Watson:So what happens when we are exerting ourselves in these kinds of warm environments?
Juliet Watson:And I, I mentioned humidity because humidity, heat is part of the problem.
Juliet Watson:But humidity amplifies the problem dramatically.
Juliet Watson:You can have a much lower temperature, but a higher humidity and it's going to feel significantly worse because of something called a wet bulb temperature, which I'm not going to get into.
Juliet Watson:But basically it just humidity makes it always feel significantly worse because your cooling mechanisms for your body don't work as efficiently.
Juliet Watson:And when air is saturated with water, it transfers temperature to your body just at a higher rate.
Juliet Watson:So what happens when we exert ourselves in the heat?
Juliet Watson:Basically our core temperature starts to rise and as a means of trying to cool ourselves off, we start shunting blood away from the places where it's needed.
Juliet Watson:Our muscles, our gut, all to our skin.
Juliet Watson:All our blood vessels were dilated in our skin and we will try and use our skin as a radiator to shed heat.
Juliet Watson:And if you're in a warm and humid environment, as I mentioned, it's not going to work terribly efficiently.
Juliet Watson:That's why we saw Those pros dumping 4 gallon jugs over their heads, trying to cool the skin down as much as possible to allow for this exchange of heat from inside to out.
Juliet Watson:And as blood flow is diverted from our muscles, we become less able to do what we want.
Juliet Watson:So when we see Sam Laidlaw unable to run, it's not because he doesn't have the fitness, it's not because he hasn't properly heat adapted.
Juliet Watson:It's because his core temperature is rising, his muscles aren't performing as well as they should be.
Juliet Watson:And on top of that, he's diverting blood flow away from his muscles, so he's not getting as much oxygen to his muscles as he needs desperately trying to cool himself down.
Juliet Watson:So all of these things are problematic.
Speaker B:And likewise, your body is pulling effectiveness and blood away from your gut as it's trying to cool itself as well, which is why we see such huge GI issues in racist Lycona versus a cold.
Speaker B:Right?
Juliet Watson:And the gut is exquisitely sensitive to blood flow.
Juliet Watson:If your gut stops getting adequate amounts of blood flow, a couple of things happen.
Juliet Watson:Number one, you start to have a breakdown in the barrier between what's inside the gut and what's outside the gut.
Juliet Watson:And so you can have a translocation of some of the bacterial pathogens that are normally inside your gut.
Juliet Watson:They can actually gain access to your bloodstream, and that can cause a whole cascade of inflammation, which can make things significantly worse for trying to cool yourself, because, remember, inflammation causes fever.
Juliet Watson:So we have this huge problem when we start to see the leakage of this barrier between the gut and the bloodstream.
Juliet Watson:And then the second thing that happens is we stop absorbing, because we need blood flow to our gut in order to absorb what's in there.
Juliet Watson:And as we stop absorbing, we stop taking in nutrition, and sugars start to sit in there and cause problems as they are broken down by the bacteria that sit there.
Juliet Watson:And so we end up with gas and cramps and all of those things, nausea and everything else.
Juliet Watson:So heat is really the enemy of exercise.
Juliet Watson:And yet we put ourselves into these environments and try and do things.
Juliet Watson:And so the solution to working, even if you're well adapted, even if you have been able to do all that, the solution to being able to get through is simply to turn down the effort.
Juliet Watson:Laidlaw.
Juliet Watson:I use him as an example because I was watching Laidlaw stagger from one side of the road to the other, thinking, my God, somebody needs to pull him off before he gets in big trouble.
Juliet Watson:But the reality was he ended up walking for quite a while.
Juliet Watson:He cooled himself down.
Juliet Watson:He got to the point where he was able to run again.
Juliet Watson:He finished 17th, which is very reasonable given what he went through.
Juliet Watson:And the reason he was able to do that was because he was able to get his body temperature to a point where he was able to reestablish blood flow to his gut, reestablish blood flow to his muscles, and able to perform at least at a level to be able to finish and finish in a very respectable manner.
Juliet Watson:And that's what us as age groupers have to do as well.
Juliet Watson:When you start feeling those effects in your gut, in your muscles, the only way to get over it slow down.
Juliet Watson:Let your core temperature stop producing so much heat internally.
Juliet Watson:Let your core temperature gradually come down, cool yourself externally as much as possible, and then you'll reestablish blood flow to the areas where it's needed.
Juliet Watson:Now, currents or black currant from New Zealand.
Juliet Watson:They have a lot of papers, basic science studies that seem to suggest that taking in this current black current into your gut actually seems to help with some of these problems that they had.
Juliet Watson:Some studies that say, oh, the chemicals, the polyphenols, the astrocyanins, they seem to actually prevent some of this leakage, they prevent the translocation of bacteria and they prevent this inflammatory process that comes about when we are exercising in the heat.
Juliet Watson:The other thing they said was it improves gut permeability in terms of letting in the good stuff but not letting in the bad stuff.
Juliet Watson:So there's a lot of basic science stuff that kind of points to blackcurrants having some effects that would allow people not necessarily to withstand the heat, but to maybe not develop some of the gastrointestinal effects that we might otherwise get in the heat.
Juliet Watson:Now, the letter from the feed made it seem like, oh, if you take the stuff, you're going to be able to perform miracles in the heat.
Juliet Watson:That's not what the basic science says.
Juliet Watson:The basic science basically suggests.
Juliet Watson:And the papers are not consistent because there were some papers that said maybe not.
Juliet Watson:But some of the papers definitely seem to suggest that New Zealand black currant does improve some of the biochemical processes, so that when exercising in the heat there might not be as much impact on the gut.
Juliet Watson:Great.
Juliet Watson:That's the theory.
Juliet Watson:What actually happens in athletes.
Juliet Watson:One paper and in the feed email, I'll just remind you what they said because this is why I wrote to them, because they said this.
Juliet Watson:They're in the feed email.
Juliet Watson:There was a comment about.
Juliet Watson:New research proves that this supplement is incredibly effective in protecting the gut during exercise and the heat.
Juliet Watson:So I wanted to know what that paper was.
Juliet Watson:And here it is.
Juliet Watson:Anthocyanin rich New Zealand blackcurrant extract reduces running induced gastrointestinal symptoms in the heat.
Juliet Watson:Sounds promising.
Juliet Watson:This was not a published paper.
Juliet Watson:This was merely a poster abstract presented at a conference.
Juliet Watson:So what does that mean when you have done research, but that research does not rise to the level of the highest quality?
Juliet Watson:You often Cannot get it published as a paper, but you can publish it as a abstract.
Juliet Watson:Alternatively, sometimes when you're doing research, your preliminary results are not ready yet to be submitted as a paper.
Juliet Watson:So instead you present them as an abstract.
Juliet Watson:And the reason you do that is because it pads your resume.
Juliet Watson:It looks good to have an abstract and that just shows that you're doing ongoing research.
Juliet Watson:But an abstract ideally would be followed up with a paper published.
Juliet Watson:This abstract was published a couple of years ago and no paper has followed.
Juliet Watson:So it suggests that either their results didn't end up being as good as what they put in the abstract, or they didn't have further results, or when they submitted it for review, it was rejected.
Juliet Watson:I don't know what the answer is to that.
Juliet Watson:All I know is what they said was they gave New Zealand black currant and a seven day lead up.
Juliet Watson:They had people running on a treadmill for one hour in a very controlled environmental condition.
Juliet Watson:And 92% of participants in the placebo group experienced gastrointestinal symptoms.
Juliet Watson:25% in those who received New Zealand blackcurrants.
Juliet Watson:Shiver me timbers, I'm ready.
Juliet Watson:I'm on board.
Speaker A:Are you sure this was, are you.
Speaker B:Sure this wasn't an abstract from Adam's 10th grade science fair?
Juliet Watson:Yeah, let's read the fine print because it sounds too good to be true.
Juliet Watson:It probably is, and indeed it is.
Juliet Watson:In the placebo condition, two participants reported severe symptoms and those severe symptoms were dizziness and nausea.
Juliet Watson:In the New Zealand blackcurrant extract condition, there was one person who had severe symptoms.
Juliet Watson:So you could report that as a 50% improvement, but the reality is those numbers are very small.
Juliet Watson:Yeah.
Juliet Watson:And again, the study was on a grand total of, if I remember correctly, 20 people.
Juliet Watson:So it's a very small group.
Juliet Watson:In the placebo condition, 11 participants reported total GI symptoms and this was reduced to four participants in the New Zealand blackcurrant extract.
Juliet Watson:So again, sounds great.
Juliet Watson:92% to 25%.
Juliet Watson:But those symptoms were burping and heartburn.
Speaker B:And heartburn.
Juliet Watson:Now, I have done Kona twice.
Juliet Watson:I have raced in Chattanooga, I have raced in Augusta.
Juliet Watson:I have raced in a lot of hot and humid environments.
Juliet Watson:Burping and heartburn.
Juliet Watson:I would have been thrilled for those to be my only symptoms.
Juliet Watson:Running in the heat, I just, yeah, I was a little bit surprised to see that was what they reported as such a earth shattering.
Juliet Watson:Anyways, the takeaway from this is I'm not convinced.
Juliet Watson:Now, this is a natural product.
Juliet Watson:There's definitely no downside to this.
Juliet Watson:It has a lot of polyphenols in it, which we've discussed previously as being something good.
Juliet Watson:Athocyanins certainly seem like a possibly a good thing.
Juliet Watson:There's a couple of hints that maybe there's a performance benefit here, at least in short duration type things.
Juliet Watson:Nothing earth shattering at all.
Speaker B:Those products, they just haven't done any good studies on yet.
Juliet Watson:They've done a few.
Juliet Watson:Some of the basic science studies are really interesting, but they just haven't borne out in clinical studies.
Juliet Watson:And you're right, there may be clinical studies to come and we'll have to revisit this in the future if it happens.
Juliet Watson:But to me, the advertising is outpacing the science dramatically.
Juliet Watson:And the one other thing we always talk about is cost.
Juliet Watson:It's recommended you take one capsule per day.
Juliet Watson:30 capsules cost $38.
Juliet Watson:So not exorbitant given how much we pay for other things.
Juliet Watson:If you want to try this, I certainly wouldn't say not to.
Juliet Watson:I just wouldn't tell you to expect anything dramatic.
Juliet Watson:I certainly would never say take.
Juliet Watson:I would never say with the strength of conviction that Matt at the feed did.
Juliet Watson:I would never say to take this thinking that you were going to get incredible results with performance recovery and especially performance in the heat, because that just does not seem to be borne out with the evidence that I have seen so far.
Speaker B:All right, another product doubted by the Tridoc.
Speaker B:You heard it again.
Juliet Watson:I don't say not to use this.
Juliet Watson:I definitely think that there's it's a most natural products I have no problem with and I don't think you're going.
Jeff Sankoff:To go wrong using this.
Juliet Watson:But I definitely don't think you're going to get the kinds of benefits that are being promised.
Juliet Watson:Oh, tart cherry juice.
Juliet Watson:That's going to stay in tar.
Speaker B:Cherry juice and spirit.
Juliet Watson:Yep, that's it.
Juliet Watson:It's another medical mailbag down and you and I are off to warmer climes, at least for the for a short duration.
Juliet Watson:And when you get back, we will have another medical mailbag to record.
Juliet Watson:But until that time, if you have a question that you'd like to submit for us to answer, I hope that you'll do so.
Juliet Watson:Send me an email.
Juliet Watson:Tridocloud.com you could drop your question into the private Facebook group search for the Tridark podcast on that platform.
Juliet Watson:Answer the three easy questions.
Juliet Watson:I'll grant you admittance.
Juliet Watson:You can join the conversation, ask your questions.
Juliet Watson:We would love to have you aboard.
Juliet Watson:Juliette.
Juliet Watson:Thanks for being here.
Juliet Watson:Have a wonderful trip.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Juliet Watson:You as well And I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
Speaker B:Yeah, sounds good.
Speaker B:Okay, see you later everybody.
Juliet Watson:Bye.
Jeff Sankoff:My guest on the program today is Carolyn Carter.
Jeff Sankoff: nd then got into triathlon in: Jeff Sankoff: She got her pro card in: Jeff Sankoff:Carolyn is a self acknowledged, quote, slow pro, end quote, a title that she bestowed upon herself and wears proudly.
Jeff Sankoff:She has, quote, slow pro, quote, raced in Santa Cruz, Indian Wells, Oceans, St.
Jeff Sankoff:George, among other all at the 70.3 distance and many Olympic distance races as well.
Jeff Sankoff:She gave to my attention though because of a social media post that she made on Instagram and we're going to talk about her career as well as her social media content and that post in question as we get through this interview.
Jeff Sankoff:Carolyn, thank you so much for joining me today on the Tridark podcast.
Speaker A:Of course, I'm very excited.
Jeff Sankoff:Carolyn, tell me a little bit about what got you from swimming into multisport.
Jeff Sankoff:I'm always interested in hearing people's journey journeys from one sport into three.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:First of all, I apologize if you hear the truck outside, it's really loud.
Speaker A:I think it's almost done getting the trash.
Speaker A:But yeah, so I swam.
Speaker A:I started swimming when I was five years old.
Speaker A:I literally did not do another sport my entire life.
Speaker A:Like, never had experience with running.
Speaker A:I was always horizontal in the pool.
Speaker A:And then I quit swimming.
Speaker A:I swam up until I swam for a D1 school in Ohio and I swam for one year and I ended up quitting.
Speaker A:Just, I got so burnt out.
Speaker A:It was so much.
Speaker A:Not surprisingly, college athletics is a lot, but it was just, I was over it.
Speaker A:So I did not swim.
Speaker A:Like, I quit and I didn't do a sport for the rest of college.
Speaker A:And then after college I started working and had a lot of free time and I was like, okay, I need like something to do.
Speaker A:I'm like really bored.
Speaker A:And I realized that I like to have like goals.
Speaker A:I just need like a goal to work towards.
Speaker A:And so I started running, which was really hard.
Speaker A:And I really hated it at first.
Speaker A:And I was like, I don't understand how people like to run a marathon.
Speaker A: n in or I signed up for it in: Speaker A:I have the swimming background.
Speaker A:I should do a Triathlon.
Speaker A:And so before I had even done a triathlon, didn't even own a bike, hadn't ran a half marathon.
Speaker A:I signed up for my first triathlon, which was 70.3 Ohio.
Speaker A: That was in: Speaker A:And then I bought a bike, I ran the half marathon, and then I did the race and everything was fine.
Speaker A:So it all worked out.
Jeff Sankoff:Clearly you had something of an aerobic engine to help you get through all of this.
Jeff Sankoff:Yes, that helps.
Jeff Sankoff:Unlike so many of us who come to the sport as adult on set swimmers, you had the swimming part taken care of.
Jeff Sankoff:So did any of it.
Jeff Sankoff:You said running was difficult, but was biking a challenge for you to take up as well?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It felt like.
Speaker A:So running, it didn't feel as natural.
Speaker A:I don't know, it just was hard.
Speaker A:And then it took me a while.
Speaker A:It still does.
Speaker A:I've been running at this point now for almost 10 years and it still feels like I'm struggling often.
Speaker A:But when I got the bike, I don't know, I didn't really.
Speaker A:I felt like I learned how to clip in really easily.
Speaker A:I felt like I could take like the breathing rhythm that I would do in swimming and carry that to the bike and just feel the same like endurance kind of feeling.
Speaker A:So I ended up really enjoying the bike.
Speaker A:I ride alone a lot at first, which was also boring.
Speaker A:But then when I started I found group rides and then I learned now biking is like my favorite of the three.
Speaker A:But yeah, I'd say running is still love, hate, relationship.
Jeff Sankoff:Are you still strongest at the swim?
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely, for sure.
Jeff Sankoff:So what was it like to get that experience at the LA triathlon, which is a huge.
Jeff Sankoff:Or was a huge triathlon.
Jeff Sankoff:And there you are coming in.
Jeff Sankoff:What?
Jeff Sankoff:I guess to get your pro card you had to be what, top three women overall?
Speaker A:Yeah, so I had always.
Speaker A: I, yeah, started triathlon in: Speaker A: And then: Speaker A:So, like in that gap, I got way better at cycling.
Speaker A: ck triathlon and I think like: Speaker A:And I always wanted to get at my pro car, but it felt like a pipe dream.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, that's never gonna happen for me.
Speaker A:Like, maybe a miracle will happen.
Speaker A:And so I did the LA Trail and I Didn't even know.
Speaker A:The pro qualifying standards are super confusing.
Speaker A:That's like a big question.
Speaker A:I get asked on Instagram all the time.
Speaker A:And USA Triathlon does have a document with all the criteria.
Speaker A:And you look at it and you're like, I don't even know what I'm reading.
Speaker A:So I did the LA triathlon, came in third overall for women.
Speaker A:And one of my good friends came in first, and she, like, DMed me on Instagram a week later.
Speaker A:It was like, are you going to take your pro card?
Speaker A:And I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker A:And she's, oh, you qualified.
Speaker A:And I was like, what?
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I, like, looked at the results, I looked at the criteria, and I was like, holy crap.
Speaker A:So then there was like an internal debate for a while.
Speaker A:Not a while, because I knew I wanted to take it.
Speaker A:And I was like, I can always take it and just take it back.
Speaker A:You can take it and you can, like, stop being a pro whenever you want.
Speaker A:So I was like, I can just take it and see what happens.
Speaker A:But yeah, there was like a big internal debate there for a while if I should take it.
Speaker A:Because I was like, I know I'm going to be back of the pack.
Speaker A:But I'm like, does that really matter?
Speaker A:I still earned it, so why not take it?
Speaker A:This could be the only opportunity where I qualify.
Speaker A:That's kind of.
Jeff Sankoff:What was it that drove you to want to be a pro?
Jeff Sankoff:Because you said right from the get go, you said, oh, I'm going to be a backpack of the back pro.
Jeff Sankoff:And I think a lot of people who want to become professionals in triathlon do so for a lot of different reasons.
Jeff Sankoff:There's obviously going to be this whole group of people who want to do it because I.
Jeff Sankoff:This is going to be my career.
Jeff Sankoff:I'm going to win.
Jeff Sankoff:I'm going to make a living off of it.
Jeff Sankoff:That clearly wasn't your approach.
Jeff Sankoff:So what was it that drove you?
Speaker A:First of all?
Speaker A:The first reason, honestly, is maybe a little bit, I don't know the word I'm looking for.
Speaker A:I honestly just thought vanity.
Speaker A:Yes, Vanity Fair.
Juliet Watson:That's totally fair.
Juliet Watson:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was being vain.
Speaker A:I was like, how cool.
Speaker A:And at this point, I had a somewhat big following on Instagram and I'm like, that's cool to be able to say, put pro triathlete in my Instagram bio.
Speaker A:Honestly, come on, that's pretty cool.
Speaker A:But then the second reason where the benefits are really good, you get cheaper race registrations.
Speaker A:You get like the pro, the Porta Potties in transition.
Speaker A:And it just, I don't know, it's just like all these, like cool, like little experiences that you get as a pro that you wouldn't get otherwise.
Speaker A:But I also felt like at that point like I was getting faster.
Speaker A:And I will say, like, I have been back of the pack, but like this year I did.
Speaker A:I did two 70.3s, but I wasn't last.
Speaker A:I wasn't even second to last at either one.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:I am back in the pack, but it's.
Speaker A:I feel like I'm moving up at least a little bit.
Speaker A:I don't think I'll ever be in the money, but it was a way to also push myself harder because once I got my pro card, I also hired my coach.
Speaker A:I didn't have a coach before then.
Speaker A:And then I really got into a routine and some more serious training.
Speaker A:So it's also like an excuse to push myself a little bit more.
Jeff Sankoff:And I think it's important to note that a slow pro is a ridiculously fast age grouper.
Jeff Sankoff:So it's.
Jeff Sankoff:You can poke fun at yourself a little bit by calling yourself a slow pro, but I still marvel at your abilities and the fact that you did it all without a coach and you did it all on your own.
Jeff Sankoff:And that just shows how much raw talent you.
Jeff Sankoff:You obviously brought to this.
Juliet Watson:So thank you.
Jeff Sankoff:How has it felt to show.
Jeff Sankoff:I love the comment about the porta potties.
Speaker A:They're very nice.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, that to me is almost worth the price of the pro card right there.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah.
Juliet Watson:The.
Jeff Sankoff:What has it been like to show up to some of these races and find yourself amongst some of the big names in the sport and from what I've heard from other pros that I've spoken to who are similar, who are new to it or rookies or maybe not in the top upper echelon.
Jeff Sankoff:All of these women are fantastically approachable, very lovely, and very helpful.
Jeff Sankoff:What has it been like for you?
Speaker A:So I think the first couple races was extremely intimidating because I didn't know any of them.
Speaker A:And you're like, you're in the pro meeting and you're like, no one knows who I am.
Speaker A:I don't know who these people are.
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't know if they're nice.
Speaker A:I don't know if they're just like, focus on the race.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But they were so nice.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:Since that race, that was like two years ago almost to the day when I did Santa Cruz as my first pro race and like all the races I've done since then, it is such a community and same people start to show up at every race.
Speaker A:And I've become such good friends with these women all across the board of the pro women.
Speaker A:And it's next year, could potentially be my last year with my pro card.
Speaker A:And honestly, I don't really care about like the racing aspect.
Speaker A:The part that makes me the saddest is knowing that I won't be racing with those women anymore.
Speaker A:And it's going to the pro meeting with those women, I'm like, of course I'll still see them and still be friends with them.
Speaker A:But it's just like getting that like quality time at the race.
Speaker A:I might not have that anymore, which makes me really sad.
Speaker A:So I'm like, maybe I'll re qualify, who knows?
Jeff Sankoff:But yeah, and the lack of porta potties.
Speaker A:And the lack of porta potties.
Speaker A:I just like waiting to pee in my wetsuit like everybody else.
Jeff Sankoff:Like the peons, all the masses.
Speaker A:Yeah, everyone's just peeing in a big herd by the beach.
Jeff Sankoff:I do want to go back to that question though, that I asked before, which is what drives you to keep showing up because you've got a full time job.
Jeff Sankoff:You obviously are very busy getting all the training in.
Jeff Sankoff:Can't be.
Jeff Sankoff:We all try train because we enjoy training and because we get all these things out of it.
Jeff Sankoff:But it's a different level when you're competing as a pro and obviously there's a lot more to it for you.
Jeff Sankoff:What is it that drives you?
Speaker A:That is a really.
Speaker A:That's a hard question.
Speaker A:That's a good question though.
Speaker A:But I think like I said before, I'm like such a goal oriented person.
Speaker A:So I like set these and they're like for now, like before I was getting my pro card, that was like, I guess a big goal.
Speaker A:But then now it's more like time goals.
Speaker A:Shave this much time off my bike.
Speaker A:Shave this much time off my run.
Speaker A:And I just, I think about that goal.
Speaker A:I guess it's hard right now.
Speaker A:So right now I have no races on the calendar because I'm getting married next week.
Speaker A:Honeymoon's in November.
Speaker A:There's just a lot going on this year and it, it is a lot harder to motivate myself to go out there and train because I'm quite literally training for nothing.
Speaker A:But then I just think about Oceanside.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, that could be like a big race for me.
Speaker A:And then it's just like.
Speaker A:And so, I don't know, I Guess I just.
Speaker A:Little improvements and I don't know if that answers any of the question at all.
Speaker A:That's a really hard question.
Jeff Sankoff:It is a hard question.
Jeff Sankoff:And not everybody has really sat down to think about it, and that's okay.
Jeff Sankoff:But congratulations on getting married.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Jeff Sankoff:That's exciting.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's a lot going on.
Jeff Sankoff:Is your husband to be involved in multisport at all?
Speaker A:No, he's not, but he.
Speaker A:He has a bike that he hasn't ridden.
Speaker A:Like when we moved to la, it got put into storage and like literally has not been out of storage in five years.
Speaker A:But he comes to the races, so.
Jeff Sankoff:Oh, that's important.
Jeff Sankoff:A good Sherpa.
Jeff Sankoff:A good Sherpa.
Jeff Sankoff:I want to talk a little bit about your social media Persona.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Jeff Sankoff:Because that is what got us together.
Jeff Sankoff:Because I saw a post of yours and reached out after seeing it.
Jeff Sankoff:You are out there as.
Jeff Sankoff:What's your Instagram handle?
Speaker A:La Triathlete.
Jeff Sankoff:La Triathlete with an underscore in the middle there.
Jeff Sankoff:And you have been out there as that Persona for quite some time.
Jeff Sankoff:And you have been very honest about who you are as a professional and what it is that you're doing.
Jeff Sankoff:And by putting yourself out there, as is not that uncommon, you have opened yourself up not only to the adoration, I think, of the majority of people, but also to the trolling of a small number of people.
Jeff Sankoff:The.
Jeff Sankoff:Unfortunately, I would imagine most of those are men, but I'm sure also knowing what I know from other people who've experienced this kind of thing, women are not necessarily so nice to each other either.
Jeff Sankoff:But the post that got me interested in talking to you was your response to a man who had posted something along the lines of, if you can't even break five hours in a half, Ironman, what are you doing as a pro?
Jeff Sankoff:Something like that.
Jeff Sankoff:And I thought your response was phenomenal.
Jeff Sankoff:Carolyn's response was basically telling this individual in no uncertain terms to take his jealousy and his lack of other things to do with his time and go find some better use for it.
Jeff Sankoff:But while she did that, she was modeling all of the things that she gets as a pro, which I thought was fantastic.
Juliet Watson:But the reason I reached out to.
Jeff Sankoff:Her was because I once again found myself just feeling sad at the state of the.
Jeff Sankoff:The affairs that people are so quick to tear others down.
Juliet Watson:And I wanted to talk to you.
Jeff Sankoff:About that because I know that you've been out there for a while.
Jeff Sankoff:You have a huge following, as you said.
Jeff Sankoff:And I'm sure that's not the only time this has happened.
Jeff Sankoff:So you're.
Jeff Sankoff:You're putting on a brave face, of course, when you're on Instagram.
Jeff Sankoff:But how does it feel to get these kinds of comments?
Speaker A:So when I first started getting bigger on Instagram, I would like.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker A:I slowly start getting the negative comments.
Speaker A:And at first it would bother me a lot.
Speaker A:Like, it would put me in a bad mood.
Speaker A:I remember, I think it was like three years ago, maybe I went on a backpacking trip for three days and I had my phone off because I was like, in the middle of the forest.
Speaker A:And I remember coming back and turning my phone on and was getting all this hate on one specific post.
Speaker A:And I just remember I was so, like, it like, ruined my whole week.
Speaker A:I was like, coming back from this backpacking trip and I was like, in the forest, no phone.
Speaker A:It was like a magical trip.
Speaker A:And then now I'm like, great, now I don't even want to be on Instagram all this stuff.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:As time has gone on, I have.
Speaker A:It's gotten easier, which is good.
Speaker A:So most of the time now when I get a negative comment, I just block the person without even responding.
Speaker A:Or if it's really stupid, I like to post it on my story or like, that guy and just show everyone.
Speaker A:And it's not even for.
Speaker A:Because I'll get messages that are like, oh, ignore the hate.
Speaker A:I'm like, it's not about.
Speaker A:I feel bad about it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Look how stupid this person is.
Speaker A:That's more.
Speaker A:I'm trying to shame them, but I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know why people do it.
Speaker A:I'll scroll through Instagram.
Speaker A:And luckily, I think my hate comments are pretty mild.
Speaker A:And there's really not that many compared to other people I see.
Speaker A:But it's just.
Speaker A:You'll see the most harmless post and you go to the comment section and people are just tearing them down.
Speaker A:Like, all the comments are just awful.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:What this is a human being.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:Just, we're all humans.
Speaker A:What are you doing?
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:If you see something, you think, I've seen posts that I'm like, this is dumb.
Speaker A:But why?
Speaker A:Like, why take the time?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't get it.
Speaker A:Can't wrap my head around.
Jeff Sankoff:That's where I always come down.
Jeff Sankoff:I'm always like, I get how easy it is to sit behind your screen and be anonymous and just say whatever you would never say to someone in person.
Speaker A:Right?
Jeff Sankoff:So I Get that part.
Jeff Sankoff:But the part I've never understood is how you disconnect the fact that there is a person on the other side and how you just like how sorry your life has to be able to take the hate out that way without pausing for one second to think about how it's going to land.
Jeff Sankoff:And that's what we've become as a society.
Jeff Sankoff:It's really sad.
Jeff Sankoff:But you're out there.
Jeff Sankoff:You're putting yourself out there all the same.
Jeff Sankoff:Why?
Juliet Watson:Like, why?
Jeff Sankoff:I'm glad that you do, because I get a lot out of watching you.
Jeff Sankoff:I think you're very entertaining.
Jeff Sankoff:And I'm glad.
Jeff Sankoff:Like, I have another friend, Alex Larson, who has a very entertaining Instagram about her business as a dietitian and a nutritionist.
Speaker A:I love her.
Speaker A:Yes.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah.
Jeff Sankoff:Triathlon Joe.
Jeff Sankoff:So we, the people we.
Jeff Sankoff:I've talked about with you, we're both mutual fans of.
Jeff Sankoff:I know that they get a lot of negative stuff, but yet they still get a lot of positive.
Jeff Sankoff:I'm assuming you get a lot of positive from it.
Speaker A:That's the thing that's, like, why I keep going is because the positive really outweighs the negative.
Speaker A:And it's just, I'd probably say, what, like, 98% positive, 2% negative.
Speaker A:And I'm sure there's people and talking smack behind my back, like, sending posts to each other, making fun.
Speaker A:I don't know, I don't care, whatever.
Speaker A:But I think that just, like, how much more pop.
Speaker A:Like, my community feels so positive.
Speaker A:And I feel by posting, and I think, I like to think, I don't know if I'm doing this.
Speaker A:I hope I am, but I'm trying to make triathlon just, like, a more approachable sport.
Speaker A:When I went into it at 23 or whatever, 22, I was like, this is so intimidating.
Speaker A:Everyone's so scary and everyone's so serious.
Speaker A:And I'm like, it's just not.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be that serious.
Speaker A:And you have dumb questions that you're afraid to ask when you first start.
Speaker A:And it's just, I want people to feel like they have a safe kind of like, space and can ask me things.
Speaker A:And hopefully I'm posting helpful content.
Speaker A:But anyway, I think that is why I keep doing it is just like, knowing that I'm hopefully helping other, like, cyclists, triathletes, whoever.
Jeff Sankoff:And have you heard from anybody that you did make an impact on them and that you did help them?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So this is literally almost makes me cry every time it happens.
Speaker A:Occasionally I get like, a Message or a comment of someone who says, I signed up for a triathlon because of you.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, my God, that is the biggest compliment in the whole world.
Speaker A:I'm like, they signed up for an entire race because of me.
Speaker A:And I'm like, just the fact that, I don't know, more people are joining the sport.
Speaker A:And.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, so that is great.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, that is great.
Jeff Sankoff:And that definitely offsets all the stupidity.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker A:Yes.
Jeff Sankoff:But if you could say something to the people who are sitting out there and just don't have anything better to do than just, I don't know, be mean.
Jeff Sankoff:I know what I would say as a dad to my kids.
Jeff Sankoff:Just don't do that, like, golden rule kind of stuff.
Jeff Sankoff:But you're actually on the receiving end.
Jeff Sankoff:What would you say?
Speaker A:I would say, before you have a negative thought about a post, let's say, and you're about to type something out that's really stupid.
Speaker A:Just take a moment, put the phone down, touch some.
Speaker A:Go outside, touch some grass, go for a walk.
Speaker A:Perspective.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, perspective.
Speaker A:And then come back and then be like, am I going to look like an if I comment this or another thing?
Speaker A:Here's another one.
Speaker A:Here's one.
Speaker A:I always want to say, because half the time, these men who comment, and you're right, I don't know why.
Speaker A:It's not all men, but it's mostly men.
Speaker A:I don't understand it, but it.
Speaker A:I'll go to their profile to be like, who is this guy?
Speaker A:And sometimes you get the ones that are like, I hate cyclists.
Speaker A:I want to run you over with my car.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh.
Speaker A:And it's just like some guy whose profile picture is a pickup truck, whatever.
Speaker A:But the really specific hate comments I get are from men who often have their family in their profile picture, wife and kids, and I could say anything to those people.
Speaker A:It's like, if your child saw this comment of you bullying a random girl on Instagram, would they be embarrassed?
Speaker A:Because if I saw my dad doing that, I'd be humiliated.
Speaker A:So just think about that.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, those are all good points.
Jeff Sankoff:Those are all good points.
Jeff Sankoff:All right.
Jeff Sankoff:I want to turn it back to happier things of the races that you've done.
Jeff Sankoff:What are some of the standout memories that you have?
Jeff Sankoff:Because I've done every single one of the 70.3.
Speaker A:Really?
Jeff Sankoff:I actually.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah.
Jeff Sankoff:I actually wonder if we were at the same events because we talked about Santa Cruz.
Jeff Sankoff:We weren't, but.
Jeff Sankoff:Which years did you do Indian Wells?
Speaker A:I've done Indian Wells.
Speaker A:20.
Speaker A: ,: Jeff Sankoff:So we were there at 23.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:That was my PR race.
Jeff Sankoff:And when did you do St.
Jeff Sankoff:George this year?
Jeff Sankoff:Okay.
Jeff Sankoff:No, didn't.
Jeff Sankoff:I wasn't there this year.
Jeff Sankoff:I've done St.
Jeff Sankoff:George a few times, but not this year.
Jeff Sankoff:But in any rate, when you think back on all those events as a pro, I imagine there's got to be some things that kind of stand out.
Jeff Sankoff:So what are some of the things you look back on and think to yourself, wow, that was really cool, or that was a really good moment.
Speaker A: r Oceanside and last year, so: Speaker A:So basically, in Oceanside, there's that speed zone where it's like, for 30ft, you can't go over.
Speaker A:I think age groupers.
Speaker A:I think it's third.
Speaker A:20, 20 maybe, right?
Jeff Sankoff:I think it's 25 miles an hour.
Speaker A:Okay, wait, it's 25.
Speaker A:So age groupers at 25, pros can do it at 30 or 35.
Speaker A:I can't remember.
Speaker A:Maybe 30.
Speaker A:And so my question was.
Speaker A:Because it's a no passing zone.
Speaker A:And so I'm like, if.
Speaker A:What if a pro is stuck behind an age grouper?
Speaker A:Which did happen to me this year, and I'm like, but it's a no passing zone.
Speaker A:What am I supposed to do?
Speaker A:And then the race guy, like, the guy who answered the questions was like, you're just gonna have to go 25 miles an hour.
Speaker A:And I remember Holly Lawrence turned around and was like, that's.
Speaker A:And I was like.
Speaker A:She was like, on my side, because she's obviously not gonna have to worry about age group people passing her because she's win.
Speaker A:But I have such a girl crush on her.
Speaker A:I'm like, she's so cool.
Speaker A:And I was just like.
Speaker A:I was like, she agreed with me.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, we're best friends.
Speaker A:So that was really cool.
Speaker A:But, gosh, I don't know.
Speaker A:There's been so many, like, cool experiences.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's just really cool.
Speaker A:Ever since, like, my Instagram's gotten bigger.
Speaker A:Is that at, like, races when people get, like, really excited and they'll be like, yeah, la triathlete.
Speaker A:It's just so hard not to smile.
Speaker A:Especially because it's a run.
Speaker A:I don't like the run as much.
Speaker A:But then you're like, at Oceanside, where there's people lined up the whole way and you're passing all the other athletes and everyone's.
Speaker A:It's just so hype.
Speaker A:So much fun.
Juliet Watson:But yeah, that's awesome.
Jeff Sankoff:That's awesome.
Jeff Sankoff:That's another great reason to have the Instagram profile that you do because it lends that kind of.
Jeff Sankoff:You have friends and supporters at every race.
Jeff Sankoff:That's so fun.
Jeff Sankoff:So you mentioned, you mentioned that last next year's.
Jeff Sankoff:Your last year with that card.
Jeff Sankoff:What would have to happen for you to be able to.
Jeff Sankoff:To re.
Juliet Watson:Qualify for it?
Speaker A:That also is confusing, but I think based off of what I read, I would have to do a race.
Speaker A:So it's either Ironman, half Ironman, or a another situation like the LA Triathlon, where there's a pro field with a prize purse and I'd have to finish my time would have to be within 8% of the winner's time.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then the problem is it's like all the races I want to do, I don't know, but I want to do Oceanside again, St.
Speaker A:George, maybe Eagleman, and these are all pro series races.
Speaker A:So it's great.
Speaker A:All the really fast people are going to show up.
Speaker A:So I'm like, now I need to find a race where maybe it's not as fast and I can re qualify, but who knows?
Speaker A:Maybe I'll get really fast next year.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, maybe.
Jeff Sankoff:So you're getting married.
Jeff Sankoff:You got a honeymoon coming up, so no more racing this year, I'm guessing.
Jeff Sankoff:And do you have anything.
Jeff Sankoff:You mentioned Oceanside, but anything else that you're thinking about for next year?
Speaker A:Yeah, so I will say Indian Wells this year is not a hundred percent off the table.
Speaker A:I'm on the.
Speaker A:I need to talk to my coach because I leave, I think, on like November 6th and I come back on like the 23rd.
Speaker A:So I'm gone for a long time.
Speaker A:And then Indian Wells is two weeks later and I will.
Speaker A:I'll be in Africa.
Speaker A:So it's not like I can just go train.
Speaker A:I don't really know if I want to train anyone.
Speaker A:So I'm like, will my fitness carry through those two and a half, three weeks?
Speaker A:Is it worth it or should I just go and cheer?
Speaker A:So potentially, Indian Wheels and that one's just so close to la.
Speaker A:It's like, easy.
Speaker A:But yeah, I'm definitely doing Oceanside.
Speaker A:I think I'll do that one every year.
Speaker A:As long as I race.
Speaker A:I love that race.
Speaker A:And then I'll do St.
Speaker A:George again.
Speaker A:I did that one for the first time this year.
Speaker A:I loved it like that one.
Jeff Sankoff:Isn't it so beautiful?
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:I think it's my.
Speaker A:I think it beats Oceanside now and I PR my run there and it's pretty hilly.
Jeff Sankoff:That's a tough run.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a tough run.
Speaker A:I was like, I just was feeling myself and then I might do Eagleman.
Speaker A:Haven't done that one heard it's fast.
Speaker A:And then I need them to release the whole pro schedule because you like think of races you want to do and then they don't make them pro races.
Speaker A:But I would like to do potentially Oregon or Augusta.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, Oregon was not a pro race this year.
Jeff Sankoff:So I don't know that the swim is so fast.
Jeff Sankoff:I don't know if it will be.
Jeff Sankoff:Yeah, we'll see.
Juliet Watson:We'll see.
Speaker A:Maybe Michigan and then probably Indian Wells.
Speaker A:I've got a lot of random ones in my head.
Speaker A:I next year is a lot less busy.
Juliet Watson:And so the last question I want.
Jeff Sankoff:To ask you is how you manage doing all of it.
Jeff Sankoff:You're very busy with the Instagram, but of course you're very busy with your full time job.
Jeff Sankoff:So as somebody who also is time poor because of all the balls I have in the air, how do you make it all work?
Speaker A:That can be hard for sure.
Speaker A:I think my job is, they call it flex.
Speaker A:So it is like partly remote, partly in the office, which really helps because it's like when you're at home it's a lot easier to go get like a lunchtime swim.
Speaker A:And my hours, I work with a lot of people that are central time, east coast, so I do start a little bit earlier and I'm able to log off earlier so I have a little bit more I can like work my schedule around like my training schedule around my work schedule.
Speaker A:A little easier than some people who might have to sit in traffic and stuff.
Speaker A:So thank God, thankful every day for that.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think for Instagram that one's the hard sometimes because it's not as important as I feel like we're actual job and training.
Speaker A:But on the evenings when I'm just like sitting on the couch, I'll scroll through Instagram and kind of like think of ideas for content and then I'll pick one day, usually Monday, my rest day.
Speaker A:So like after work on Monday I'll just film like five videos that I have in my drafts for the rest of the week.
Speaker A:So I find pockets of time to do Instagram stuff as well.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker A:And then this week it's.
Speaker A:I'm still trying to train and then also I'm like working and then the wedding and then I just like, oh my God, next week's gonna be stressful.
Speaker A:But that's okay.
Jeff Sankoff:That's it's a busy life, but it sounds like a fun life and that's why you're always smiling.
Jeff Sankoff:So that's great.
Jeff Sankoff:That's great.
Jeff Sankoff:Carolyn Carter, I can't thank you enough for taking some time to chat with me today.
Jeff Sankoff:It was a really good conversation.
Jeff Sankoff:I wish you you the very best for your upcoming nuptials, your honeymoon, and for whatever your triathlon career holds in the next year.
Jeff Sankoff:I hope that you will be able to re qualify because I think that you are a joy to have on the pro circuit and it'd be great to see you for longer.
Jeff Sankoff:Thanks for having thanks for being here today.
Juliet Watson:I really appreciate it.
Speaker A:Yep, thanks for having me.
Denise Haslick:Hi, my name is Denise Haslick and I'm a teammate of the Tridoc and a proud Patreon supporter of the Tridoc Podcast.
Denise Haslick:The Tridoc Podcast is produced and edited by Jeff Sankoff, along with his amazing interns Cosette Rose and Nida Takashima.
Denise Haslick:You can find the show notes for everything discussed on today's episode as well as archives of previous episodes@www.tridocpodcast.com.
Denise Haslick:do you have questions about what was discussed on this episode?
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