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Episode 163

Ep. 163: Quercetin/Luke Tasker

In this episode:

Quercetin, a natural flavonoid, takes center stage in the Medical Mailbag as we dive into its potential benefits for preventing illness, especially during the cold and flu season. Jeff and Juliet explore the science behind quercetin's effectiveness, discussing various studies that highlight its role in supporting immune function for athletes and active individuals. The conversation shifts gears as I welcome Luke Tasker, a remarkable age group triathlete who has quickly risen through the ranks of the sport. Luke shares his unique journey from modern pentathlon to triathlon, detailing his training methods and the mindset that drives his success. With insights on goal-setting and overcoming challenges in competitive racing, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways for athletes of all levels.

Segments:

[06:12]- Medical Mailbag: Quercetin

[32:15]- Interview: Luke Tasker

Links

@Taskertri on Instagram

Transcript
Speaker A:

So the first one, like, how to set your goals.

Speaker A:

You guys have got to be realistic, right?

Speaker A:

You can't.

Speaker A:

Like, I wouldn't just go out and say I want to win and then that's at the end of the race because it totally depends on who's there.

Speaker A:

So I, I definitely look at it more of I want to swim between this time, I want to bike between this time, or like, hold this power or something like that.

Speaker A:

You want to have realistic and achievable goals, but they don't want to be easy because if, if it's just an easy goal, then you don't get any satisfaction from.

Speaker A:

From achieving the goal.

Jeff Sankoff:

,:

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm your host, Jeff Sankoff, the tridoc, an emergency physician, triathlon coach, and multiple Ironman finisher coming to you from beautiful, sunny Denver, Colorado.

Jeff Sankoff:

I don't know what it's been like where you live, but it's holy smokes, has it been cold here in Colorado?

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm talking like Montreal cold.

Jeff Sankoff:

I had to bust out my Canuck coat that I brought with me from the Great White north, and thank goodness that I did bring it.

Jeff Sankoff:

I might not have to wear it that often, but this past week, when temperatures hit south of minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit, I was very glad to have it secured in its big poofy comfort.

Jeff Sankoff:

I was ready to brave any conditions, though, to be honest, I have spent most of my time indoors.

Jeff Sankoff:

I was not willingly going to venture out there and take on those temperatures and that wind chill voluntarily if I didn't have to.

Jeff Sankoff:

The boy, of course, remained undeterred.

Jeff Sankoff:

He was out there skiing on the weekend and then running every other day.

Jeff Sankoff:

In his words, it has to be colder and darker than this for me to run on the treadmill.

Jeff Sankoff:

End quote.

Jeff Sankoff:

I remain endlessly impressed at his youthful enthusiasm and apparently also his ability to maintain his core temperature at a higher level than mine.

Jeff Sankoff:

What about you?

Jeff Sankoff:

If you were afflicted by this arctic blast, how have you managed?

Jeff Sankoff:

Did you retreat to the comforts of your pain cave, or did you forsake the furnace and head outside in spite of the wind chill?

Jeff Sankoff:

Let me know by leaving a comment in the Facebook group for the podcast.

Jeff Sankoff:

I know that I won't be the only one who's interested in hearing how you survived.

Jeff Sankoff:

On the last episode, I mentioned in the monologue the impact that a certain coaching company with a name that sounds a lot like this podcast has been having on triathlon coaching businesses I opined at the time that I felt that while artificial intelligence is an emerging technology with a lot of promise, I remained skeptical of its ability to replace a real, live, emotionally intelligent coach.

Jeff Sankoff:

And it turns out that many of you agree.

Jeff Sankoff:

I put a poll in the private Facebook group and 19 of 20 who answered agreed that they prefer a human coach to a program scripted by an AI model.

Jeff Sankoff:

The lone dissenter felt that AI could do the job for most beginners, but that more accomplished triathletes would probably benefit from a more human coach.

Jeff Sankoff:

I have since had some interesting conversations with a couple of my own athletes, both of whom work in the AI space in different capacities.

Jeff Sankoff:

Both believe that AI offers some potentially incredible assets for coaching, but both of them also agree that it's not really there yet.

Jeff Sankoff:

And given that both work with me, they clearly feel that the intangibles that I provide outweighs whatever it is that AI may or may not be able to do better at this time.

Jeff Sankoff:

Whatever the future holds, I remain convinced that human coaches will remain an integral part of making triathletes better at multisport.

Jeff Sankoff:

No AI program is going to be able to displace what we bring to the table as mentors, educators and supporters for our athletes.

Jeff Sankoff:

So if you're looking for that human touch backed by 20 plus years in the sport, five in coaching, and a lifetime of education in science and medicine, I hope that you'll think about the tridoc.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's tridoc like Dr.

Jeff Sankoff:

And not an inanimate spot for your coaching needs.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'd love to chat with you about it if you like.

Jeff Sankoff:

Feel free to reach out anytime.

Jeff Sankoff:

On the show today, Juliette Hochman and I look at the science behind the claims that quercetin may be able to keep you healthier during this cold and flu season.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is this natural flavonoid a panacea or yet another false hope?

Jeff Sankoff:

We answered the question on the Medical Mailbag and that's coming right up later.

Jeff Sankoff:

I am joined by former modern pentathlete and current age group phenom Luke Tasker.

Jeff Sankoff:

Luke has found astonishing success in triathlon in a very short time and he tells me all about how he got so good so fast and what comes next.

Jeff Sankoff:

And that's coming up just a little bit later.

Jeff Sankoff:

Before we get to all of that, I want to of course take my customary moment to thank all of my Patreon supporters of this podcast who have decided that for about the price of a cup of coffee per month, they could sign up to support this program and in so doing get access to bonus interviews and other segments that come out about every month or so.

Jeff Sankoff:

One of those is overdue and will be coming out in the next week or two, I promise.

Jeff Sankoff:

Those bonus episodes are available on a private feed for all of my subscribers.

Jeff Sankoff:

Plus for North American subscribers who sign up at the $10 per month level of support, they receive a special thank you gift in the form of a pretty cool BOCO Tridock Podcast Running hat being displayed right now on the YouTube video.

Jeff Sankoff:

If you are watching there.

Jeff Sankoff:

If you're listening, I hope you'll head over and check out the YouTube videos.

Jeff Sankoff:

They have been enjoyed by many.

Jeff Sankoff:

In any case, if you're interested, I hope that you'll visit my patreon site today.

Jeff Sankoff:

Patreon.com tridockpodcast See what's involved in becoming a supporter.

Jeff Sankoff:

Maybe sign up and get access to this pretty cool gift as well.

Jeff Sankoff:

As always, thank you in advance just for considering.

Jeff Sankoff:

And before I go and get started with the Medical Mailbag, a reminder for those of you who are listening to the podcast, please, please, please do consider leaving a rating and a review wherever you download.

Jeff Sankoff:

I promise those are incredibly helpful to getting the news about this podcast out and engaging with new listeners.

Jeff Sankoff:

And if you're watching here on YouTube, please smack the little like thumbs up button and also subscribe to the channel so you can be made aware when new videos come out at any time.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's time for another episode of the Medical Mailbag.

Jeff Sankoff:

And that means I'm joined by my friend, my colleague, Juliet Hockman.

Jeff Sankoff:

How are you today, Juliet?

Juliette Hochman:

I am so great.

Juliette Hochman:

How are you?

Jeff Sankoff:

I am trying to stay warm like you.

Jeff Sankoff:

I know we are both embraced in the very chilly frozen tendrils of what is the Arctic.

Jeff Sankoff:

What are they calling it?

Jeff Sankoff:

The Arctic Blast.

Jeff Sankoff:

The Arctic Blast that has come down from the Great White north, my homeland and embracing us all on this chilly January day.

Juliette Hochman:

It is a great time of year for hot tea and dry firewood.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, and unfortunately everybody's going to be training on their treadmills like I was yesterday for a long run indoors and of course trying to avoid the dreaded illnesses of winter.

Jeff Sankoff:

Which is timely because we're going to be talking about something that can help with that.

Jeff Sankoff:

I know the question that was sent in through the Tridoc Podcast Facebook group.

Juliette Hochman:

For this question could not be better timed.

Juliette Hochman:

And it comes to us from Daniel Frings, who is part of the Tridoc Facebook group and he says that he received an email from training geeks that included strategies to help against athlete sickness during the Winter.

Juliette Hochman:

And this article featured prominently the use of quercetin and claimed evidence for the prevention of respiratory illness without citing specific sources.

Juliette Hochman:

And it's almost as if training Peaks knew you were going to pick this up with your deep dive with your research fellows into this product.

Juliette Hochman:

So tell us about quercetin.

Juliette Hochman:

What is it?

Juliette Hochman:

Does it work?

Juliette Hochman:

What do we know about it?

Juliette Hochman:

Has it been tested?

Juliette Hochman:

What do you think?

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, I saw the question immediately.

Jeff Sankoff:

My eyebrow was raised in its usual skepticism.

Jeff Sankoff:

And we dug into it.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I have to give a call out, as always, to my intern for this episode.

Jeff Sankoff:

Nina Takeshima did a great job in finding the research on this.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I think we should begin first with just a discussion of what quercetin actually is.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's not a derived chemical of any type.

Jeff Sankoff:

In fact, it is a flavonoid compound.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's found in.

Jeff Sankoff:

Sorry, I'm peering at my other.

Jeff Sankoff:

For those of you watching on YouTube, you're gonna see me leaning over.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's because I've got the print kind of small.

Jeff Sankoff:

Let's see if I can make it bigger on my other monitor.

Jeff Sankoff:

But it is a flavonoid compound.

Jeff Sankoff:

It is found in different kinds of fruits and vegetables.

Jeff Sankoff:

You can find quercetin in onions and asparagus.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's also found in red leaf lettuce.

Jeff Sankoff:

I had some red leaf lettuce in my spring mix yesterday as part of my salad.

Juliette Hochman:

And also in broccoli and green peppers and peas and even more importantly for the people in my household.

Juliette Hochman:

And some fruits as well.

Juliette Hochman:

Apples, cherries, some berries.

Juliette Hochman:

Yep.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah.

Juliette Hochman:

Now, can you just pause for a second and spell quercetin for us?

Juliette Hochman:

Because I think that people listening to this, if they don't check the show notes, they're going to spell it with a kw.

Juliette Hochman:

And let's just start there.

Jeff Sankoff:

So it's Q, U, E, R, C, E, T, I, N.

Jeff Sankoff:

So quercetin and.

Jeff Sankoff:

And we're pronouncing it the way we think it's.

Jeff Sankoff:

It is.

Jeff Sankoff:

I didn't actually look in to see how it should be phonetically pronounced, but quercetin seems right.

Jeff Sankoff:

So flavonoid compounds are something we have discussed before when we've talked about derivatives from different kinds of fruits, tart, cherry juice, the blackcurrant from New Zealand, as well as even the.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm trying to remember what the pine extract was.

Jeff Sankoff:

But all of these things contain these chemicals called flavonoids.

Jeff Sankoff:

And flavonoids are an organic compound, lots of double bonds.

Jeff Sankoff:

They tend to be free, radical scavengers.

Jeff Sankoff:

Et Cetera.

Jeff Sankoff:

But this particular flavonoid, quercetin, is also got some interesting properties in test tube tests.

Jeff Sankoff:

Not sure exactly what led to these kind of in vitro studies, but when they've looked at in vitro studies using different kind of upper respiratory type of viruses, like adenovirus, as well as herpes simplex virus, HSV1, they were able to show that the use of flavonoids, quercetin in particular, in very large concentrations, actually inhibited the ability of these viral particles to gain access to cells in like an agar kind of media.

Jeff Sankoff:

And what that suggests is that the flavonoid seems to, apart from any immune enhancing properties, seems to work on its own to block entry of these viral particles into a cell.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, just to get into the weeds just a tiny little bit, as human beings, we can be infected by basically three different types of pathogens.

Jeff Sankoff:

There's viruses, bacteria, and fungi.

Jeff Sankoff:

We talked about fungi recently.

Jeff Sankoff:

We talked about cordyceps, right.

Juliette Hochman:

And I haven't been able to forget it, huh?

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, that's right.

Jeff Sankoff:

Fungi are the most dangerous things that infect us because we don't have a lot of ways to beat them off, both biologically, but also we don't have a lot of good agents to use chemical agents like antifungal agents.

Jeff Sankoff:

Bacteria are the ones that have been around the longest and do cause a lot of problems, but we have developed antibiotics and we have had some success in being able to fight off infection with those viruses are the unique among the three kinds of pathogens in that viruses are the one kind of particle that is not meet, that does not meet the definition of being alive.

Jeff Sankoff:

That is to say, a virus cannot do anything on its own.

Jeff Sankoff:

It can't replicate on its own.

Jeff Sankoff:

It can't do anything unless it gains access to one of our cell, because what it does is it gains access to our cells and then it hijacks the mechanisms of the cells in order to commandeer the cell from doing what it normally does and instead dedicate itself to just making more viral particles.

Jeff Sankoff:

And eventually the cell dies because it ruptures and just releases billions of these viral particles, which can then go on and infect other cells.

Juliette Hochman:

So viruses need a host.

Juliette Hochman:

Bacteria and fungus do not.

Jeff Sankoff:

They all need hosts.

Jeff Sankoff:

But the difference is that bacteria and virus, fungi can live on their own, but then if they get into a host organism, the medium tends to be such that they do even better, and they tend to replicate very dramatically and they actually feed off of the host they're in, whereas a virus can do nothing until it gains access to a host cell, where it then does a lot of damage.

Juliette Hochman:

Exciting.

Jeff Sankoff:

So quercetin is a chemical that seems to block entry of the viral particle to cells and therefore blocks infection.

Jeff Sankoff:

And that is a big deal.

Jeff Sankoff:

So this led scientists and researchers to then take the next step and say, that's super interesting.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is it possible then that we can use quercetin in animals?

Jeff Sankoff:

Because you first look at things in a test tube or on an agar plate, but the second thing you need to do is then look at it in animals and say, okay, what happens when we use quercetin in doses and then we infect them with something?

Jeff Sankoff:

Does the quercetin help in any way?

Jeff Sankoff:

So we found a study.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's quercetin reduces susceptibility to influenza infection following stressful exercise.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, this is of particular interest to us because you will recall, and this goes back to, gosh, a really early episode of this podcast where I looked at the evidence that said, hey, when we go and perform at a race where we are really putting out for four hours for a half Ironman or 12 to 15 hours for an ironman, that exertion, that level of exertion depresses the immune system and makes us susceptible to infection for a period of about 24 to 48 hours afterwards.

Jeff Sankoff:

So when we get on a plane after an ironman or a half ironman and we are surrounded by people who may be infectious, we are at much greater risk because our immune system has been shown to be significantly impaired.

Jeff Sankoff:

So there's this window, and in this study, they actually put again the mice on the little treadmill, and they had them exert themselves to a significant amount, almost to exhaustion.

Jeff Sankoff:

And then they actually.

Jeff Sankoff:

So let me back it up.

Jeff Sankoff:

What they did is they put their mice into four different categories.

Jeff Sankoff:

They had a non exercising group.

Jeff Sankoff:

So half the mice were not exercising, half the mice were exercising.

Jeff Sankoff:

And then within each group exercising and not exercising, they split the groups again into half.

Jeff Sankoff:

Half got placebo, half got quercetin.

Jeff Sankoff:

So you had four groups.

Jeff Sankoff:

You had exercising with placebo, exercising with quercetin.

Jeff Sankoff:

Gotcha.

Jeff Sankoff:

Not exercising with placebo, not exercising with quercetin.

Jeff Sankoff:

And basically.

Jeff Sankoff:

But they all got inoculated with the influenza.

Jeff Sankoff:

And this study was not so much to determine whether or not quercetin could block influenza infection because they were all inoculated with such high amounts of influenza, they were all going to get it.

Jeff Sankoff:

That was not the view of this study.

Jeff Sankoff:

What this study was looking at was, did the quercetin decrease the symptoms?

Jeff Sankoff:

Did it decrease the mortality and did it decrease or did it prolong the onset to symptom development?

Jeff Sankoff:

And it did.

Jeff Sankoff:

It.

Jeff Sankoff:

It really did.

Jeff Sankoff:

And the exercise, we saw that in the mice that exercised without quercetin, they did particularly badly.

Jeff Sankoff:

They had.

Jeff Sankoff:

I didn't.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, I don't know what it is about influenza now I'm not familiar with.

Jeff Sankoff:

We know that influenza is a bad illness in humans.

Jeff Sankoff:

It is particularly bad, sure.

Jeff Sankoff:

It carries a higher mortality than most viral respiratory illnesses, to the point that that's why we recommend vaccination against flu shots.

Juliette Hochman:

You don't want old people to get flu.

Jeff Sankoff:

Exactly.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's not so much that the vaccine is so effective because we know it's not always that effective, but what it does do is it dramatically decreases mortality, it dramatically decreases infectivity, and it slows the spread.

Jeff Sankoff:

But the mortality, even, even amongst the elderly and the very young, where it's the highest, is only around 5, I think 5%, maybe 10% in the worst years.

Juliette Hochman:

Let me guess, all the mice died.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's pretty bad in mice who exercised and got placebo.

Jeff Sankoff:

It was like 30% of the mice.

Jeff Sankoff:

Sorry, 70% of the mice died.

Jeff Sankoff:

It was pretty awful.

Jeff Sankoff:

And even in the mice who were protected somehow, mice who didn't exercise or whatever it was, still the survival rate was only like 50%.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, no, I apologize.

Jeff Sankoff:

80%.

Jeff Sankoff:

You still had a 20% mortality depending on which group you were in.

Jeff Sankoff:

Influenza clearly very bad for mice.

Jeff Sankoff:

So mice, if you're listening, get your flu shot now.

Juliette Hochman:

Right.

Juliette Hochman:

Okay, let's pull out of the weeds here.

Juliette Hochman:

So let me guess, let me guess.

Speaker A:

We want.

Juliette Hochman:

We don't want to be a non exercising, placebo receiving mouse.

Juliette Hochman:

We want to be an exercising mouse.

Juliette Hochman:

Take it from there.

Jeff Sankoff:

Who you want to be, you want to be getting quercetin and you want to be.

Jeff Sankoff:

It doesn't matter if you're exercising or not, because if you were.

Jeff Sankoff:

If you were in the control group and got quercetin, you did the best.

Jeff Sankoff:

If you were exercising and got quercetin, you did the second best.

Jeff Sankoff:

The placebo groups, whether they were not exercising or exercising, did the worst.

Jeff Sankoff:

They did the worst in terms of mortality, they did the worst in terms of onset of symptoms, and they did the worst in terms of the severity of symptoms.

Jeff Sankoff:

Although it wasn't totally clear to us.

Jeff Sankoff:

It was funny, they scored the symptoms in the mice, but I'm not really sure how they.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's not like you can have mice do a questionnaire, so I.

Jeff Sankoff:

They obviously had a way, they must have had a way of doing that.

Jeff Sankoff:

But it wasn't clear to us how they did it.

Jeff Sankoff:

But the long and the short of it was that quercetin had some pretty impressive effects on doing what it did.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, I mentioned before that in vitro studies, so test tube studies showed that quercetin blocked virus entry, but clearly that wasn't the case here because all of the mice were getting infected.

Jeff Sankoff:

So there must have been, the researchers posited, there must also be some direct antiviral activities once the virus actually infects the cells, which is an additional property of quercetin, which is pretty interesting.

Jeff Sankoff:

So let's move on to another study.

Jeff Sankoff:

This one is quercetin reduces illness, but not immune perturbations after intensive exercise.

Jeff Sankoff:

So this is a study on people, cyclists.

Jeff Sankoff:

And what they did is they gave them three weeks of 1,000 milligrams of Quercetin.

Jeff Sankoff:

They compared these cyclists to people who got placebo and they looked at how often they didn't inoculate them.

Jeff Sankoff:

They just, they were doing this during the high respiratory illness season, February to March, and they looked how often did they get sick.

Jeff Sankoff:

And if they got sick, they, they measured their blood tests to see what was going on in their blood.

Jeff Sankoff:

And they found a couple of really interesting things.

Jeff Sankoff:

The first thing is that the rates of illness were dramatically different.

Jeff Sankoff:

5% in those who received Quercetin, 45% during those who did not.

Jeff Sankoff:

And that's astonishing.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's a huge.

Juliette Hochman:

Now, and this is all viral infections, like anything these people might have come across.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay, yeah, anything that might.

Jeff Sankoff:

And this is generally just a cold.

Jeff Sankoff:

So a dramatic decrease in a cold because of a significant protective effect of quercetin.

Jeff Sankoff:

And then the other thing they found is that their immune function, as measured by various different metrics in the bloodstream, didn't change.

Jeff Sankoff:

So the quercetin seemed to be having that previously commented upon effect of just blocking entry of the virus into the cells and then doing something, if the virus did get into the cell, doing something to decrease the ability of the virus to do anything, which is again, super, super interesting.

Jeff Sankoff:

And then the last of the studies that I wanted to comment on, because this was particularly interesting, this was quercetin supplementation and upper respiratory tract infection, a randomized community clinical trial.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now this was a very well designed trial in that it was double blinded, randomized, which means they had a large number of people, nobody knew what they were getting, neither the researchers nor the people involved.

Jeff Sankoff:

And what they found was they gave Quercetib in 500 or 1,000 milligram per day over 12 weeks.

Jeff Sankoff:

And they supplemented as well with vitamin C or niacin.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I'm just gonna come right out and say just quickly, the previous studies have never shown vitamin C or niacin to be effective.

Jeff Sankoff:

And this study also found that the addition of vitamin C or niacin had no impact.

Jeff Sankoff:

So all of you vitamin C users, you can stop.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's not doing anything, at least for colds.

Jeff Sankoff:

It will help you get scurvy against getting scurvy, though.

Jeff Sankoff:

So arrangement.

Jeff Sankoff:

I digress again.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yes.

Jeff Sankoff:

So the long and the short of this study, because I don't want to get into the real nitty gritty of it, was they found that quercetin again was helpful, but only for those people in this study who self identified as physically fit.

Juliette Hochman:

Isn't that interesting?

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure what's going on here.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's very interesting though.

Jeff Sankoff:

But it suggests to me that we know that the immune system is depressed when we do extensive or intense exercise.

Jeff Sankoff:

And quercetin seems to have some impact on blocking viral particle entry.

Jeff Sankoff:

But why doesn't it work in people who are not depressing their immune system and when they exercise?

Jeff Sankoff:

That I can't answer.

Jeff Sankoff:

So there must be some kind of synergistic kind of activity that's going on here that when you exercise you are doing something that quercetin then comes in and seems to help.

Jeff Sankoff:

I think that the point here is that, look, quercetin is not going to hurt anybody.

Jeff Sankoff:

There's no downsides to taking quercetin, but the benefits, for whatever reason, seem to be restricted to those people who are athletic and are exerting themselves at a high level during upper respiratory tract infection season, which I find fascinating and I don't have a great explanation for and we could not find any explanation for.

Juliette Hochman:

Shannon, a couple of follow up questions here which may be relevant for our age group athlete audience.

Juliette Hochman:

So it seems, and maybe I'm splitting hairs here, it's not so much that quercetin is the bricks and mortar that is making a healthier immune system.

Juliette Hochman:

It's not building a bigger wall.

Juliette Hochman:

It's more like quercetin is this big burly guy at the gate with a shield who's fighting off infections or diminishes and almost like wounding the infection, sorry, wounding the virus before it can enter.

Juliette Hochman:

Is that right?

Juliette Hochman:

Is that sort of a good metaphor?

Jeff Sankoff:

I think?

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, I think it's a good metaphor.

Jeff Sankoff:

You could also think of it as a moat or something just preventing the virus from getting across the moat.

Jeff Sankoff:

But the Thing that I can't explain is why it only seems to be efficacious for athletes and not so much for non athletes.

Juliette Hochman:

But given that our audience is mostly athletes, this is helpful.

Juliette Hochman:

And then I guess my second question, follow up question is you have children who are in the school system and they are bringing home bugs, right?

Juliette Hochman:

That's the nature of the beast.

Juliette Hochman:

And if you have even younger children who are in daycare, it's triply worse, right?

Juliette Hochman:

Because they're bringing home all these bugs that you haven't seen in ages.

Juliette Hochman:

So everybody's getting ill.

Juliette Hochman:

I unfortunately rarely get ill.

Juliette Hochman:

Can't remember the last time I was ill, except for maybe Covid.

Juliette Hochman:

Knock on wood.

Juliette Hochman:

And is this supplement that is worth for you, worth giving it to your kids if they pass on things to you, worth you taking it?

Juliette Hochman:

For someone like me who is fortunate not to be in that situation and not as exposed to bugs, is it worth it for me to take, do you think?

Jeff Sankoff:

That's a great question.

Jeff Sankoff:

As always, it comes a little bit down to cost benefit.

Jeff Sankoff:

This is not a particularly expensive supplement.

Jeff Sankoff:

We did a search online.

Jeff Sankoff:

We found that quercetin is widely available.

Jeff Sankoff:

You do have to be a little bit careful about where you get it in terms of what the dose is.

Jeff Sankoff:

For example, I was on a website that is very well known to listeners who that markets itself as the one stop shop for athletes.

Jeff Sankoff:

They have.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm not going to name it, but I think you know what I'm talking about.

Jeff Sankoff:

They have a single supplement of quercetin on their website which retails at about $40 for 60 capsules.

Jeff Sankoff:

But it only contains 250mg of Quercetin per capsule.

Jeff Sankoff:

And the recommended dose in all of the studies we found is about a thousand milligrams.

Jeff Sankoff:

So you need to be taking.

Jeff Sankoff:

That would mean you'd need to take four of those capsules.

Jeff Sankoff:

So for 40 bucks you're only going to get through about 10 days.

Juliette Hochman:

Okay, now most of the places.

Juliette Hochman:

Yep, yep, go ahead.

Juliette Hochman:

I'm looking at Amazon right now and there's four pages of course done on Amazon.

Juliette Hochman:

There's so many different brands and most of these come in in 500 milligram capsules and they, they do range in price a little bit.

Juliette Hochman:

But a lot of them contain something called bro.

Juliette Hochman:

Hold on a second, I just saw it.

Juliette Hochman:

Bromelain.

Juliette Hochman:

A lot of them have bromelain.

Juliette Hochman:

A lot of them are also doubling up with, as you said, vitamin C, niacin, zinc.

Juliette Hochman:

Do you know anything about if we should be buying this As a compound or does it not matter as long.

Jeff Sankoff:

As I don't know that it matters?

Jeff Sankoff:

I didn't look at any of the other stuff.

Jeff Sankoff:

Honestly, the only thing I'm interested in is the quercetin.

Jeff Sankoff:

And you want to be taking a thousand milligrams a day if you are going to take it.

Jeff Sankoff:

Which gets to the other part of your question, which is should we be taking it now?

Jeff Sankoff:

At 500 milligram capsule, about $40 for 60 capsules, that means you're spending $40 a month to get a thousand milligrams a day.

Jeff Sankoff:

That, that's not so bad.

Jeff Sankoff:

At least I don't think it's so bad.

Jeff Sankoff:

Especially if it means that I'm significantly less likely to get a cold.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, you mentioned the situation you're in and whether or not this applies to everybody or not, you know, catching a cold at this time, the respiratory tract infection season is going to be very much dependent on your living situation and for work, et cetera, et cetera.

Jeff Sankoff:

We know that the reason we get more colds in the wintertime is because we spend more time indoors in close proximity to other people.

Jeff Sankoff:

And so there's just a higher likelihood of infectiousness.

Jeff Sankoff:

And if you have school age kids, they're getting colds at school because they're in close proximity, the windows are all closed, everybody's touching things.

Jeff Sankoff:

And so you're just going to be surrounded by viruses the entire winter.

Jeff Sankoff:

So yeah, I think it does depend a little bit on your situation.

Jeff Sankoff:

Clearly for you, you're not exposed a lot.

Jeff Sankoff:

The benefit of this is not going to be nearly as much as it is for me with two high schoolers who are constantly bringing home stuff.

Jeff Sankoff:

I will say I'm thinking about this for my high schoolers.

Jeff Sankoff:

They're both athletes, they're both working at very high level pretty much all week long.

Jeff Sankoff:

They both hate getting cold, they are continuously washing their hands, they're hand sanitizing all day long because they hate being sick because it puts them out of.

Jeff Sankoff:

They're pro, they don't like it.

Jeff Sankoff:

And so I'm going to start giving them the option to take this stuff and I will probably start taking it as well because I don't want to get sick and I generally tend to get less sick because I've been exposed to so much throughout my career.

Jeff Sankoff:

But still I don't want to catch anything if I don't have to.

Jeff Sankoff:

So this might be something.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, my wife is not as much athletic as we are, so she's unlikely to benefit from this.

Jeff Sankoff:

Like we are.

Jeff Sankoff:

So for her, it might not make sense.

Jeff Sankoff:

Again, not gonna hurt.

Jeff Sankoff:

So if she wants to take it, I'm not gonna stop her.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I think then it becomes a.

Jeff Sankoff:

Like you said, I think it's a question for everybody to consider whether or not it's appropriate for them.

Jeff Sankoff:

I don't think it's inappropriate for anybody.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's, it's a natural compound.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's not gonna do any harm.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's just a question of the cost.

Jeff Sankoff:

I wouldn't take this all year long because your risk of upper respiratory tract infections is highest generally between October and March.

Jeff Sankoff:

Outside of those months, it falls way off.

Jeff Sankoff:

Are you going to get sick outside of those months?

Jeff Sankoff:

Sure.

Jeff Sankoff:

But it's much, much less common.

Jeff Sankoff:

And for people within October and March, then they need to consider if you, Juliet, you tend to almost never catch anything because you're just not exposed.

Jeff Sankoff:

You don't have kids in the house, your husband works at home, you work from home.

Jeff Sankoff:

Probably not as important, but for someone who's in a situation like mine, their kids are in school, they're bringing home things, might be something to consider.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I certainly would say that this is something that I would recommend at this point for people in that situation.

Juliette Hochman:

Yeah.

Juliette Hochman:

And I would really encourage you to get on over to Amazon because it's, it's really affordable.

Juliette Hochman:

Looking just at these prices right here at thousand gram capsules, 240 capsules, $30.

Juliette Hochman:

Yeah.

Juliette Hochman:

Jeff will be really interested if you do start to give this to your kids and possibly take it yourself if you see any benefit in the next, what, 60 days, I guess, that we have left in this particularly heightened viral season.

Juliette Hochman:

And we will have to get a report back from you on whether you thought it was effective.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, it's always hard with anecdote, but still, anecdote does count for something.

Jeff Sankoff:

I sure do wanna, I do wanna finish with just one last thing because we've talked about flavonoids in tart cherry juice, we've talked about it in other things.

Jeff Sankoff:

And when we talked about tart cherry juice, we did not talk about its potential in this regard in terms of stopping viral infections, but we did talk about its other actions.

Juliette Hochman:

Anti inflammatory.

Jeff Sankoff:

Exactly.

Jeff Sankoff:

So there is a study here, Quercetin in Sports and Exercise Review, that looks at whether or not quercetin has been shown to possess any of these antioxidant things, any of these recovery or performance enhancing kinds of properties.

Jeff Sankoff:

And it did not.

Jeff Sankoff:

The studies that have been done suggest that quercetin does not help with recovery or performance.

Jeff Sankoff:

But Prevents you from getting ill, therefore is going to have.

Juliette Hochman:

It is pro performance.

Juliette Hochman:

Exactly.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is going to have those indirect effects.

Jeff Sankoff:

We're going to add this to the list.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's a growing list.

Juliette Hochman:

The list does four.

Jeff Sankoff:

No, I think we're up to more than four at this point.

Jeff Sankoff:

I.

Jeff Sankoff:

I really do think there are a host of things that we have said.

Jeff Sankoff:

There's not great scientific evidence for proven benefit, but there's psychological benefit.

Jeff Sankoff:

And so that includes things like the Normatex or the massage guns, things like that.

Jeff Sankoff:

But we have a list of things.

Jeff Sankoff:

They're almost all biological agents.

Jeff Sankoff:

Caffeine, beetroot juice, spirulina tart, cherry juice.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now this asleep tapering.

Jeff Sankoff:

Those are all things that we found evidence that are really beneficial.

Jeff Sankoff:

And so this is gonna get added to the list.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I'm excited.

Jeff Sankoff:

I love that we can find something that has evidence that shows it works.

Jeff Sankoff:

So that really brings me joy.

Juliette Hochman:

I think we need to do, in the not too distant future, a little summary of.

Juliette Hochman:

Here are the seven things that are approved by the Tridoc in terms of really are effective for performance.

Juliette Hochman:

And here are some things that we're not really sure about, but they're not going to hurt you.

Juliette Hochman:

So if you want to have at it, or as you said, the psychological benefits like the Normatec and the massage gun and the foam rolling and all that.

Juliette Hochman:

So I think we should do an episode or two on those so we can bring it all together.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm going to consider that Juliet's contribution to the listener questions and mark that down.

Jeff Sankoff:

You know what, Juliet?

Jeff Sankoff:

We are not far from episode 200, let's say.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, episode 200, that's exactly what we'll do.

Jeff Sankoff:

We will put together a review of the things that we absolutely recommend as working some of those things that are on the fringes.

Jeff Sankoff:

And we'll stay away from the things that we don't recommend because I think that'll be self evident.

Jeff Sankoff:

Juliet, another great episode and one in which I think that we both feel like, hey, we got something that we, we definitely want you to think about as potentially incorporating into your daily routine.

Jeff Sankoff:

If you have a question like Daniel did that you would like for us to answer on the medical mailbag, I hope that you will consider sending it in.

Jeff Sankoff:

You can send me an email@triodocloud.com you could drop it into the private Facebook group.

Jeff Sankoff:

What's that?

Jeff Sankoff:

You're not a member.

Jeff Sankoff:

How's that possible?

Jeff Sankoff:

Please do go to Facebook.

Jeff Sankoff:

Search for the Tridoc podcast.

Jeff Sankoff:

Answer the very easy questions.

Jeff Sankoff:

I will grant you admittance.

Jeff Sankoff:

You can join the conversation and submit your questions there until the next episode.

Jeff Sankoff:

Juliet, thank you so much for joining me.

Jeff Sankoff:

This was a great conversation.

Jeff Sankoff:

I look forward to chatting with you again next time.

Jeff Sankoff:

And keep warm.

Juliette Hochman:

Thank you, Jeff.

Juliette Hochman:

Yep, stay warm out there.

Jeff Sankoff:

My guest on the podcast today is top age group competitor Luke Tasker.

Jeff Sankoff:

Luke originally hails from the United Kingdom where he competed in modern pentathlon professionally for six years.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's the first time I've ever said that about a guest on this program.

Jeff Sankoff:

Before.

Jeff Sankoff:

He took up rowing and he did this not in the way you might expect, but rather he rode around the United Kingdom for charity with three friends, raising almost $50,000.

Jeff Sankoff:

He then went to Canada for a ski season, which turned into multiple ski seasons mixed with tree planting seasons, where he met his future, now current wife.

Jeff Sankoff:

They settled in Vancouver where he now works full time as a firefighter for the city of Vancouver.

Jeff Sankoff:

up triathlon in September of:

Jeff Sankoff:

And when I say he won, I don't mean he won his age group.

Jeff Sankoff:

I mean he won as the overall age group winner for men.

Jeff Sankoff:

races that I was at over the:

Jeff Sankoff:

He's now decided to up his game because before he was just playing around.

Jeff Sankoff:

He's got himself a new coach in the form of my own coach, Lance Watson, of course, the Ironman master coach, Olympic coach for Simon Whitfield.

Jeff Sankoff:

well as what he has ahead in:

Jeff Sankoff:

Luke, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker A:

Well, thanks for that great introduction.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about all these things.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now, first I'm going to get this wrong, but I'm going to give it a stab.

Jeff Sankoff:

I know that modern pentathlon was an event that was introduced into the Olympics by Pierre de Coubertin, the founder of the modern day Olympics.

Jeff Sankoff:

And he did this because he felt that the Olympics should have a event that represented everything that it took to be a soldier.

Jeff Sankoff:

Let's see if I can get this right.

Jeff Sankoff:

I know that there is a question and I Believe it is the cross country equestrian.

Jeff Sankoff:

Correct.

Speaker A:

Show jumping.

Jeff Sankoff:

No, it is actually show jumping.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay, I'm correct, but wrong.

Jeff Sankoff:

There's fencing.

Speaker A:

Fa.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yep.

Jeff Sankoff:

Pistol shooting.

Speaker A:

Yep.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm three.

Jeff Sankoff:

I know.

Jeff Sankoff:

There's a running event.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

So the run and shoot are combined kind of like the ski biafel there where you.

Speaker A:

You run, shoot, run, shoot, run, shoot.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, my gosh.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, you're shooting, but you're shooting a pistol.

Jeff Sankoff:

You're not shooting a rifle.

Speaker A:

That pistol.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay, so we'll get there.

Jeff Sankoff:

So that's three events.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm gonna get the other two rocks.

Jeff Sankoff:

There's a jumping event, right?

Speaker A:

Oh, that's.

Speaker A:

That's four events.

Speaker A:

So riding, fencing, running, shooting, and then swimming as well.

Jeff Sankoff:

Ah, swimming.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay, so let's go through them.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I want to know at what age you.

Jeff Sankoff:

Someone said to you, hey, Luke, you'd be a really good pentathlete.

Jeff Sankoff:

Like, how did that ever come to pass?

Speaker A:

Yeah, I.

Speaker A:

So I was actually a national swimmer.

Speaker A:

I was swimming 12, 14 times a week, just like preschool and then after school as well.

Speaker A:

And it was getting pretty tedious.

Speaker A:

I was in, like, three different clubs, like, at the same time.

Speaker A:

I decided, like, I need to do something else.

Speaker A:

I'm starting to get a bit fed up of staring at that black line the whole time.

Speaker A:

And it was totally by chance one of the girls.

Speaker A:

I think I was expressing my, like, fatigue with swimming.

Speaker A:

And she was, oh, you should try pentathlon.

Speaker A:

My dad organizes the local ones.

Speaker A:

And I was, oh, whatever.

Speaker A:

And there was a race, like, in two weeks.

Speaker A:

So I was like, I'll give it a go.

Speaker A:

And when you start as a junior.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wait, hey, wait, hang on.

Jeff Sankoff:

Horseback riding is not something you can just do.

Speaker A:

Totally.

Jeff Sankoff:

So especially show as a junior.

Speaker A:

You just do.

Speaker A:

You run, shoot and swim, and then you start adding sports in as you move up.

Speaker A:

I think I was only 12 or something when I tried it first.

Jeff Sankoff:

And you did know how to fire a pistol.

Speaker A:

I went to.

Speaker A:

So her dad organized practices.

Speaker A:

So I went to a couple practices.

Speaker A:

Pretty.

Speaker A:

But before that, no.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Speaker A:

And I shot terribly in the competition, but I was a really good swimmer and, you know, good runner.

Speaker A:

So I.

Speaker A:

I won the.

Speaker A:

The local thing.

Speaker A:

It was very small and I was, oh, this is all right.

Speaker A:

This is a bit different, you know.

Speaker A:

And then that was it.

Speaker A:

Really hooked from there.

Jeff Sankoff:

All right, this conversation is going to go for a while longer because I'm fascinated.

Jeff Sankoff:

What is the swim distance that you have to do?

Speaker A:

200 meter.

Speaker A:

200 meters.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's it.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, I thought for sure, this would be longer.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Jeff Sankoff:

And are most pentathletes good swimmers or is it.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is that the one when you watch the decathlon, like those guys are.

Jeff Sankoff:

They're good.

Jeff Sankoff:

But like, when you watch them do the running events, it's hilarious because they're clearly so slow.

Jeff Sankoff:

What is the weak link for pentathletes?

Speaker A:

It honestly varies country to country.

Speaker A:

The British guys often came from swimming.

Speaker A:

Either swimming or pony club is a common one.

Speaker A:

So horse riding, but yeah, and it's also changed so much over the years.

Speaker A:

Like swimming used to be so important.

Speaker A:

Like the points you got for each event has changed a ton.

Speaker A:

So when I started, you got a lot of points if you're a good swimmer, and that absolutely helped me.

Jeff Sankoff:

But.

Jeff Sankoff:

And what was the hardest for you to learn?

Jeff Sankoff:

Fencing or show jump?

Speaker A:

Fencing.

Speaker A:

Funnily enough.

Speaker A:

I grew up on a farm and we actually had a horse.

Speaker A:

I hated riding and I never rode.

Jeff Sankoff:

But we did have a horse and I have some friends whose kids show jump.

Jeff Sankoff:

Would they look at what a pentathlete does for show jumping and think, oh, that's easy, or is it legit, like, pretty tough show jumping?

Speaker A:

A bit of both.

Speaker A:

It is easier because it's smaller.

Speaker A:

It's a lot smaller than like proper show jumping.

Speaker A:

But you only get 15 minutes and four jumps.

Speaker A:

It's a random horse.

Speaker A:

It's not your horse.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, okay.

Speaker A:

So you just draw a horse for like, it's luck of the draw in to some aspect, you know, like sometimes you get a good rider on a, on a rough horse and it can be an interesting round.

Speaker A:

And other times you get a bad rider on a really good horse that just carries them through.

Speaker A:

So I think they would look at it and think, so what do you mean?

Jeff Sankoff:

What do you mean?

Jeff Sankoff:

You have 15 minutes and four jumps.

Speaker A:

So you literally draw a horse and they're like, okay, look, this is your horse.

Speaker A:

So then you have a warm up of fifth, like a time lot of 15 minutes and you can do four jumps in that 15 minutes.

Speaker A:

And that is all you're allowed to do to get to know the horse before you have to go down the course of 12.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, I see.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, wow.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Jeff Sankoff:

And then explain the running and shooting.

Jeff Sankoff:

You said they're combined.

Jeff Sankoff:

So what's going on again?

Speaker A:

When I first started.

Jeff Sankoff:

What are you doing?

Speaker A:

It used to be just like precision.

Speaker A:

There was 20 shots and you just got a score.

Speaker A:

And then as I moved on, it became a combined event to make it more spectator friendly, which it really is.

Speaker A:

So yeah, you.

Speaker A:

You run a short distance, shoot five shots, then it's 800.

Speaker A:

Five shots on five targets.

Speaker A:

So it could be obviously more than five shots, but 800.

Speaker A:

So there's four shoots, four, eight hundreds.

Speaker A:

So it's a little over:

Speaker A:

And then.

Jeff Sankoff:

And is it similar to biathlon where if you miss, you have to do a penalty loop of something or they just.

Jeff Sankoff:

No penalty loop.

Speaker A:

You just stay there.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, you have to get the time limitations, but if you shoot in 50.

Speaker A:

Seconds, you're out of it anyway.

Speaker A:

You know, the.

Speaker A:

The best guys are shooting in seven to 10 seconds.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow.

Jeff Sankoff:

And how far is the distance you're shooting?

Speaker A:

10 meters.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, okay.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, it's.

Jeff Sankoff:

I.

Jeff Sankoff:

I don't have any experience with firearms.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is that.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is that a reasonable distance for a handgun?

Speaker A:

It's far enough.

Speaker A:

Far enough to mess a lot for me, for sure.

Jeff Sankoff:

All right.

Jeff Sankoff:

And then fencing, it's epis.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's that very fast, like, clack, clack, and it's done.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I'm always, like, whenever I watch fencing, I'm expecting to see something from the old movies of fencing, and it always ends up disappointing me because it's.

Jeff Sankoff:

I didn't even see anything happen.

Speaker A:

Yeah, the FFA is like, you actually have to.

Speaker A:

There's a little compressible tip on the end of the sword that has to go, like, into the person.

Speaker A:

Whereas, you know, foil and saber is more of like a slashing motion.

Speaker A:

So it's has to be like a forward jab, but anywhere on the body counts.

Speaker A:

And the way it's done in pentathlon is you fence everybody in the competition just for one hit.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow, that's fascinating.

Jeff Sankoff:

So you said you were a professional, so what does that mean?

Jeff Sankoff:

You were earning your keep doing this?

Speaker A:

Yeah, yeah, I was paid, so it's.

Speaker A:

I was Team gb.

Speaker A:

It's not like any real professional sport where you're living a luxurious life.

Speaker A:

I was.

Speaker A:

I was making a bare minimum, but it was a great life nonetheless.

Speaker A:

You know, you get to travel a.

Jeff Sankoff:

Lot and were you ever an Olympic contender or.

Speaker A:

I.

Speaker A:

No, I didn't make the Games.

Speaker A:

I was the Olympic training partner for the guys in.

Speaker A:

Would that be Rio, though?

Speaker A:

I did the training camp with them pre games and stuff, but after that I stepped away.

Jeff Sankoff:

All right, so help orient us here.

Jeff Sankoff:

How old are you now, Luke?

Speaker A:

I'm 30.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay, so a youngster.

Jeff Sankoff:

But you've accomplished quite a bit in those 30 years, because the rowing.

Jeff Sankoff:

Tell me about that.

Speaker A:

Yeah, kind of random.

Speaker A:

It was so one of the girls who went to the Olympics, it was her husband, good friend of mine.

Speaker A:

He's like, I've got this idea and I think you might be interested.

Speaker A:

And I was, I'd already explained all I'm thinking of stock and bentoff and I was like, well, I can just dive fully into this.

Speaker A:

It stops that.

Speaker A:

Like, oh, what should I do with my life?

Speaker A:

And yeah, so we, we started preparing and we bought a boat and started like raising money and doing all these events and training and yeah, it was.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now this was not like a river rowing boat.

Jeff Sankoff:

This was an ocean rowing type of situation.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

So it was a nine meter boat, like carbon fiber and fiberglass mix, probably a meter and a bit wide.

Speaker A:

It was a sizable boat.

Speaker A:

And yeah, we had all of our food supplies and we had a water maker on board and, and everything because.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, so you didn't stay on shore, you actually stayed on the boat?

Speaker A:

Yeah, we couldn't go to shore was one of the things.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, wow.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Jeff Sankoff:

So how.

Jeff Sankoff:

Who were you raising this money for?

Speaker A:

This is called the new Vasive Spine Foundation.

Speaker A:

They're.

Speaker A:

They do essentially go to third world countries, train people to be like surgeons and doctors and then also bring them back here and train them more and, and provide surgeries for them.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's fantastic.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow.

Jeff Sankoff:

And what happened to the boat?

Speaker A:

Well, post, when we finished it, you just.

Speaker A:

We just sold it to another crew who were hoping to do the same sort of thing.

Speaker A:

I think they were doing an Atlantic crossing rather than around the uk, but.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

Huh.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's awesome.

Speaker A:

That's great.

Jeff Sankoff:

All right, so.

Jeff Sankoff:

Well, fast.

Jeff Sankoff:

And you did that when was that rowing?

Speaker A:

Just before I came to Canada.

Speaker A:

It's:

Jeff Sankoff:

So pre pandemic.

Jeff Sankoff:

Pre pandemic, yeah, pre pandemic.

Jeff Sankoff:

st forward six years and it's:

Jeff Sankoff:

And what got you to multisport?

Jeff Sankoff:

You'd been doing a form of multisport, but what got you to specifically triathlon?

Jeff Sankoff:

Multisport, you know.

Speaker A:

Yeah, I was.

Speaker A:

I've got a border collie, so I, I run anyway.

Speaker A:

I've always ran.

Speaker A:

I still like it.

Speaker A:

How to bike.

Speaker A:

So I was casually biking and then every summer here in Vancouver, you know, second beach pool opens.

Speaker A:

It's hard not to go and swim when it's outside and it's sunshine.

Speaker A:

And I was doing some.

Speaker A:

We, me and a friend of mine, Matt, who I work with, we were essentially doing triathlon, but we just hadn't entered anything.

Speaker A:

And he's like, oh, we should do an iron man.

Speaker A:

And then it was like, yeah, okay, so we entered Victoria but it was like a year away until Victoria.

Speaker A:

So then we decided to enter Cultus Lake and I'm not very good at like half assing things so I, it's like if I'm going to do something, I'm going hard.

Speaker A:

And then it was like, oh, let's try and win Victoria.

Speaker A:

And he, he's like, that's not really what I had in mind but okay, let's go.

Speaker A:

And we did Coltus Lake just to sort of as a tester see, see where it was at.

Speaker A:

And, and that went pretty well.

Speaker A:

And then it then I decided to get a coach post Cultus Lake and commit pretty hard and it's been full commit since then.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now most people when they do their first 70.3 don't go into it.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay, I'm going to go win.

Jeff Sankoff:

That takes a certain amount of hubris.

Jeff Sankoff:

Now clearly you're coming from a background that gives you the abil.

Jeff Sankoff:

Or the, I guess you can say the confidence to be able to say you, you could but you had no idea what you were getting into.

Jeff Sankoff:

How, how could you possibly go in with that attitude?

Speaker A:

Totally.

Speaker A:

It's, it's not that.

Speaker A:

Yeah, I, I definitely have an advantage coming from having done sport my entire life.

Speaker A:

Like I, I know how to train.

Speaker A:

I've done a lot of it.

Speaker A:

I had an idea of, of how fast I could swim 2k.

Speaker A:

I knew how fast roughly I'd be able to run.

Speaker A:

Obviously I didn't know how I'd be off the bike but you know, I think I'd ran pre, pre Victoria, something like a 1:17 flat half marathon.

Speaker A:

So I was like, okay, it's in the realm of fast enough.

Speaker A:

And then the bike was the big unknown.

Speaker A:

It was just, you know, kind of go hard and sort of see what happens.

Speaker A:

So yeah, I understand.

Speaker A:

It's definitely a weird thing.

Speaker A:

And I spend my, you know, you go on the results and you go on try calculator.

Speaker A:

It's one of my most used apps.

Speaker A:

And you're like, I, I think if I can do this, like it should be winnable.

Speaker A:

And I didn't know.

Speaker A:

Am I delusional?

Speaker A:

Is this realistic?

Speaker A:

I, I definitely had those same thoughts.

Speaker A:

But yeah, I guess it panned out.

Speaker A:

So.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, it did.

Jeff Sankoff:

What would you have done if you hadn't won?

Jeff Sankoff:

If it had gone.

Jeff Sankoff:

I work with athletes and I have athletes who come to me for their first triathlon and they're like, oh, I'm going to do X.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I'm like, yeah, that's a really nice goal, but maybe we might want to temper the enthusiasm until you've done one and see what it's all about.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

What would have happened, do you think, if.

Jeff Sankoff:

If it had been maybe a little harder than you, you ended up having it be.

Speaker A:

Well, I guess I did.

Speaker A:

Colter's leg was like my Tesla.

Speaker A:

And, you know, the run.

Speaker A:

The run was super hard in Colter.

Speaker A:

Like, I.

Speaker A:

My legs were dead after the bike.

Speaker A:

I still managed to hold on.

Speaker A:

It's a much lower standard.

Speaker A:

Obviously.

Speaker A:

There's only like 30 people or something in it, but.

Speaker A:

So I.

Speaker A:

I had an idea of where I'd be able to do if I hadn't have worn out.

Speaker A:

It had just been, you know, like, I.

Speaker A:

I just did Arizona and came forth and couldn't be less satisfied.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

Like, it just leaves a hole.

Speaker A:

You want.

Speaker A:

You want to go harder.

Speaker A:

So he would have just.

Speaker A:

It would have just been, okay, I need to do this or I need to run faster.

Speaker A:

I need to put more power down on the bike, whatever it would be.

Jeff Sankoff:

Did you take a slot for Nice?

Speaker A:

I did not.

Speaker A:

I haven't taken any of my slots.

Jeff Sankoff:

You did not?

Speaker A:

No.

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, you haven't got taken any.

Jeff Sankoff:

You're.

Jeff Sankoff:

You're just content to.

Jeff Sankoff:

To.

Jeff Sankoff:

To win and be done at that level for now.

Speaker A:

I was.

Speaker A:

I'm now gung ho on.

Speaker A:

On Marbella at the end of the year.

Speaker A:

I just need to get my.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Speaker A:

I need to get my slot in Oceanside.

Jeff Sankoff:

Okay.

Jeff Sankoff:

All right.

Jeff Sankoff:

Tell me about the:

Jeff Sankoff:

You were.

Jeff Sankoff:

I.

Jeff Sankoff:

I think you were at Oregon.

Speaker A:

I was.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, that's.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, we met at Oregon and we met at Tri Cities.

Jeff Sankoff:

me, like, when you went into:

Jeff Sankoff:

Because clearly you had the same expectations.

Jeff Sankoff:

But you must have learned something at Victoria.

Jeff Sankoff:

So how.

Jeff Sankoff:

What was your approach, and how are things any different for 24?

Speaker A:

Victoria was:

Jeff Sankoff:

Oh, I apologize.

Speaker A:

st Lake was the local ones in:

Speaker A:

Honestly, it wasn't that I had expectations to win.

Speaker A:

It's just.

Speaker A:

It is.

Speaker A:

I knew that it was possible.

Speaker A:

You never know who's going to show up at these events.

Speaker A:

You know, you see some of the.

Speaker A:

The.

Speaker A:

The more popular events, and the times are ridiculous, and I knew that those ones you wouldn't win.

Speaker A:

It's just like.

Speaker A:

So there's definitely.

Speaker A:

Yeah, it's more just.

Speaker A:

I know it's possible, and then when I'm there and you're checking in and you see all these fit looking guys with super nice, like 10, 12, 15 grand bikes.

Speaker A:

I remember leaving especially Oregon because Victoria compared to Oregon is like half the size.

Speaker A:

So we were driving back to the hotel after checking in and I was saying to my wife, you know, top five would be fine.

Speaker A:

And obviously in my head I'm like, oh, I'd be disappointed.

Speaker A:

But I was trying to convince myself that it was okay because you've got all these guys and yeah, it's super intimidating.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

You've seen everybody push.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm glad to hear.

Jeff Sankoff:

I'm glad to hear you're affected by the same thing that the regular types like us are affected by.

Jeff Sankoff:

And we look around and psych ourselves up by what we see.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's all, it's all.

Jeff Sankoff:

You show up at registration to intimidate everybody else by how you look, but then when you actually perf, it's how you perform that really matters.

Speaker A:

Totally.

Speaker A:

When I set off, I'm much more confident because it's just like all that's left to do now is work hard.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

That part's easy.

Speaker A:

Rather than just like the mind games.

Speaker A:

Even though no one's playing mind games, it's just you're looking at these people and you're like, oh, how am I going to be in this?

Speaker A:

Dude, he's on.

Jeff Sankoff:

You play them in your own head, right?

Jeff Sankoff:

You play them on yourself.

Speaker A:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A:

s at me, but I think that the:

Speaker A:

Like, I had a coach, Josiah.

Speaker A:

We were just, you know, I think my bike went from being okay at Cultus Lake to being pretty strong.

Speaker A:

Like, I put a lot of time in on the bike.

Speaker A:

And that being the sport that I hadn't previously trained for properly, I saw like pretty quick improvements.

Speaker A:

And, you know, I think I'm.

Speaker A:

I'm still seeing those now.

Speaker A:

So that was the big.

Speaker A:

The big gain.

Speaker A:

The swim was never really a focus.

Speaker A:

It was always just, you know, you know what to do in the swim, don't work too hard and just.

Speaker A:

I actually fell off on the bike in Victoria super early.

Speaker A:

And then I just lost all my confidence because it was.

Speaker A:

It was pouring rain.

Speaker A:

So it became a pretty miserable bike.

Speaker A:

And then I picked up a small injury after Victoria, so I didn't actually run very much before Oregon, but I did a ton of biking.

Speaker A:

So on the Oregon race day, it was just like, I'm going to go all out on the bike and just try and hang on.

Speaker A:

And I Actually saw, I was in the pain cave pretty bad at about 15k and I saw Juliet on course and I asked her what my gap was and she was, I'm not on the right page.

Speaker A:

And I was like, okay, whatever, it doesn't matter, I'll just keep running.

Speaker A:

I hadn't seen, I hadn't heard any time gaps the whole race and I must be at least 100 meters further away and I just hear Juliet screaming.

Jeff Sankoff:

5.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's Juliet for you.

Jeff Sankoff:

She's very helpful out there.

Speaker A:

Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker A:

And then I think Washington was probably the most straightforward because I'd had a really good solid build and, and no, no setbacks.

Speaker A:

So yeah, the down river swims definitely are my preference.

Speaker A:

But I had two of them last year.

Speaker A:

It takes away a bit of my advantage there.

Speaker A:

But I managed to come out front and Washington as well and then just, yes, stayed ahead, stay controlled on the bike.

Speaker A:

And then the run was definitely my best run to date off the bike, which was nice.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's great.

Jeff Sankoff:

So you mentioned Oceanside is coming up for you.

Jeff Sankoff:

Ocean swim and then a much more challenging bike than you've had to deal with up until now.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

What other races are you looking at for this year?

Speaker A:

Well, you know, there's talks of T100 coming to Vancouver.

Speaker A:

That would be super nice.

Speaker A:

I'm hoping that does happen because then I'll enter that one.

Speaker A:

So I'll do Oceanside T100 van if it happens.

Speaker A:

Vancouver Triathlon and then just Marbella.

Speaker A:

Trying to, trying to keep it a bit cheaper to be honest this year.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

And obviously Ironman was a big step up.

Jeff Sankoff:

How did, what was that experience like?

Jeff Sankoff:

Did you find it?

Jeff Sankoff:

Because a lot of people when they go from 70.3 to Ironman, they're not always prepared for that big jump in the training volume.

Jeff Sankoff:

And on race day too, it can be quite different.

Jeff Sankoff:

Obviously you didn't have any problems, but how did you find the step up?

Speaker A:

Yeah, it was, it was something I really wanted to do.

Speaker A:

Like, you know, you do want half iron.

Speaker A:

And then everybody, everybody at work was asking me, oh, you're going to do a full now you're going to do a full.

Speaker A:

And I'd wanted to do a fall.

Speaker A:

I wanted to see where I was at.

Speaker A:

I, I've had some friends in the UK that have done falls and so I, it was like pretty high on my radar wanting to do.

Speaker A:

And I, I didn't.

Speaker A:

The amount of training I did wasn't actually that much more and I think that was part of the reason it didn't go as successfully as it could have.

Speaker A:

Well, so I.

Speaker A:

Yeah, totally.

Jeff Sankoff:

I think maybe we might want to recal.

Jeff Sankoff:

Remember who you're talking to.

Jeff Sankoff:

You're.

Jeff Sankoff:

My listeners don't all have the same level of success as you.

Speaker A:

Yeah, it's not.

Jeff Sankoff:

I think they would be thrilled.

Speaker A:

It's not that I, I wasn't thrilled.

Speaker A:

You know, I just broke it down into, into, into goals and, and my run fell apart pretty good.

Speaker A:

Like I was.

Speaker A:

I was running slower than I even warm up on a regular run.

Speaker A:

Like I was doing 5:15.

Jeff Sankoff:

Well, I, I think what you're saying is really important.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I tell my athletes and I'm the same way after a race.

Jeff Sankoff:

Is it.

Jeff Sankoff:

No matter how a race ends up, I always look for things that I can be happy about, but I'm continually looking for things that I can improve on.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I understand what you mean by you weren't thrilled.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I'm just kidding with you when I say, listen, if I finished fourth overall in an Ironman, I'd be super happy.

Jeff Sankoff:

But I also understand if your goal is to win and you finish fourth, that is a disappointment.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I guess what I want to ask you, as somebody who obviously is coming from a very successful background as an athlete at very high levels, not most of my listeners are not competing at that level.

Jeff Sankoff:

What's your advice to age groupers who clearly most are not going to be competing at your level, but they all want to achieve things.

Jeff Sankoff:

They all want to.

Jeff Sankoff:

They all have their own goals.

Jeff Sankoff:

What would you tell.

Jeff Sankoff:

What would you tell people who maybe don't have aspirations necessarily to win?

Jeff Sankoff:

But I'm sure you can relate to the average age grouper who's still has these lofty goals in their own mind.

Jeff Sankoff:

Again, they're not going to be.

Jeff Sankoff:

To win necessarily, but they can be lofty in their own sense.

Jeff Sankoff:

So what are, what is your sort of best advice for people?

Jeff Sankoff:

Number one, how to set those goals.

Jeff Sankoff:

Number two, how to reach them.

Jeff Sankoff:

And number three, how to deal with them when they don't necessarily get what they want.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

So I guess there's a couple of questions there.

Speaker A:

So the first one, like how to set your goals.

Speaker A:

You guys have got to be realistic, right?

Speaker A:

You can't.

Speaker A:

Like, I wouldn't just go out and say I want to win and then that's the end of the race because it totally depends on who's there.

Speaker A:

So I definitely think look at it more of I want to swim between this time, I want to bike between this time or like hold this power or Something like that.

Speaker A:

You want to have realistic and achievable goals, but they don't want to be easy, because if.

Speaker A:

If it's just an easy goal, then you don't get any satisfaction from.

Speaker A:

From achieving the goal.

Speaker A:

What was the question, too?

Speaker A:

So how to.

Jeff Sankoff:

The second question was, is I said, let's see, how do you set them?

Jeff Sankoff:

What do you do when you can't reach it?

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, that was another.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I think I forgot the third part.

Jeff Sankoff:

But what do you do when you don't achieve that goal?

Speaker A:

Yeah, you got to break it down, right?

Speaker A:

Like, what.

Speaker A:

What was it that you didn't achieve?

Speaker A:

Like, what was the specific goal?

Speaker A:

And what.

Speaker A:

What do you feel like you didn't achieve with that goal?

Speaker A:

And then you break that down into what could I have done differently?

Speaker A:

What did I do well?

Speaker A:

And how can I change that for next time?

Speaker A:

Like, there's.

Speaker A:

There's never.

Speaker A:

It's never.

Speaker A:

Oh, it's very unlikely.

Speaker A:

I think it's gonna be one pinpoint something that's like, this is why I didn't achieve it.

Speaker A:

It's normally, you know, I didn't get enough nutrition in.

Speaker A:

And then whatever it.

Speaker A:

I.

Speaker A:

I started to cram for something on the run and didn't deal with it soon enough.

Speaker A:

That's a nice easy one.

Speaker A:

Or if it's.

Speaker A:

If it's something like, you know, you.

Speaker A:

You went away for two weeks and didn't get any training, and it's tough.

Speaker A:

It's realistic.

Speaker A:

It's life.

Speaker A:

So you've gotta have a good life still.

Speaker A:

But I think the big one is, you know, you gotta enjoy training, because if you don't enjoy it, it's gonna be hard to motivate yourself to do but break it.

Speaker A:

If you break it all down, why you feel like you didn't achieve it and what you feel like would have helped you achieve it.

Speaker A:

That's the.

Speaker A:

I guess the.

Speaker A:

The good one to set your next goal for next time and motivate you to the next race.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

And when you look at Arizona, which was the one that you felt like your run wasn't up to, where your par.

Jeff Sankoff:

What would you.

Jeff Sankoff:

Analyzing that.

Jeff Sankoff:

How would you address that for next time?

Speaker A:

Yeah, analyzing it for sure is like.

Speaker A:

So the swim was.

Speaker A:

Was really controlled for me as I got on some.

Speaker A:

Some good feet.

Speaker A:

I wish I'd had a bit more confidence and back myself to set off in the first wave.

Speaker A:

I think I set off maybe 10, but I was with.

Speaker A:

With Corey Mayfield, who I knew was a good swimmer, and I was like, okay, if I can sit with this guy.

Speaker A:

This is, this is ideal.

Speaker A:

But I think had I set off in the first wave, I could probably have sat with the first guy, but it was too, too much to bridge the gap to get onto him.

Speaker A:

So overall, super pleased and didn't expend too much energy on the swim.

Speaker A:

The bike, this was the huge unknown.

Speaker A:

I think my biggest bike before Arizona was like 125km, so I'd never even biked this far.

Speaker A:

So I knew like, I'd spoke to like Rachel McBride, who's a pro triathlete in Vancouver.

Speaker A:

They, they train around here.

Speaker A:

So I really wanted to, I, I picked her brain and she said the first hour has got to be easy on the bike.

Speaker A:

So that was honestly, my main goal was push enough power to be hard to catch.

Speaker A:

But don't, don't expend yourself in this first hour because you've got 180km to ride.

Speaker A:

So the, the ride, honestly, overall, like, I have nothing, nothing to complain about.

Speaker A:

It was pretty much as good as I could have asked for.

Speaker A:

I struggled a bit with nutrition.

Speaker A:

I, I was on antibiotics because I had strep throat the week before, but I, yeah, that, that's nothing that, you know, again, that's just life.

Speaker A:

It just happened.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's a big one, though.

Jeff Sankoff:

I've talked on this podcast about how antibiotics can really impact your microbiome and can really affect your ability to take in nutrition and affects your ability to perform in endurance.

Jeff Sankoff:

So that, that alone could have been an explanation for why you didn't run as well as you hoped.

Speaker A:

Yeah, I could not stop peeing on the bike.

Speaker A:

I couldn't keep my liquids in and that, that, that was new to me.

Speaker A:

Could have been the heat of Arizona, could have been the antibiotics, but either way, you know, the bike was, was solid.

Speaker A:

I was, I was super pleased with, with how I biked.

Speaker A:

And again, I don't think I expelled too much energy.

Speaker A:

Obviously you're working super hard and you're tired, but I think I was at a nice point of control.

Speaker A:

And then I came off on, on the run and I was surprised how, how okay I felt setting off and I was like, I had my goal pace of 405 and I set off at 4 or 5.

Speaker A:

Didn't feel too hard and I was like, great, just sit here if you get caught.

Speaker A:

Like, I knew Corey's as a lightning fast runner and Zach was already five or six minutes ahead, so I didn't think I was going to catch him, but it was just like, hold the Pace and just you know, make your way through the marathon.

Speaker A:

And then it was maybe 12k in or something.

Speaker A:

It was like 4 or 5, 415 but no change in heart rate.

Speaker A:

It just felt harder.

Speaker A:

Then 4 30s again no change in heart rate.

Speaker A:

Then 4 45s, 5 minutes, 5 15s.

Speaker A:

I was just, yeah, deep in the pain caves.

Jeff Sankoff:

Wow, you sound like a lot of first time Ironman runners who struggle with that.

Jeff Sankoff:

And I should qua, I should clarify for listeners.

Jeff Sankoff:

He's talking about minutes per kilometer.

Jeff Sankoff:

When he says 405.

Jeff Sankoff:

He's talking about minutes per kilometer which is about a seven.

Jeff Sankoff:

I think that's 6:50 pace I think.

Jeff Sankoff:

No it's, it's six.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, it's around seven minutes per mile.

Speaker A:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A:

And so it just, it, it pretty quickly went down and then you know I, I, I had my, so my wife was there and my, my parents in law were there and I got pretty emotional.

Speaker A:

I'm letting everyone down.

Speaker A:

They're all here like and I said this to my wife during the run and she like jugged alongside me for like maybe two minutes and I was like no you, you're doing great.

Speaker A:

We're all so proud.

Speaker A:

And, and then the one thing I was really pleased with is like the last 6k I managed to pull myself back out of the hole a little bit and I, I went from running like five minutes back down to sort of four 30s.

Speaker A:

So, so there is positives for sure.

Speaker A:

I think nutrition is huge.

Speaker A:

I, I actually started walking every aid station after I, my pace went to out the window.

Speaker A:

So I was like I'm just gonna walk every aid station, take on as much as I possibly can and that definitely helped.

Speaker A:

I would maybe walk every other one from the start or something if I was to do another one because I think you just have to get so much nutrition in.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

It's craziness.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, you just, you know what that you, you're the poster child for adapting to dealing with what the day gave you and just making changes on the go and making sure that you got through.

Jeff Sankoff:

And listen, 8:35 is nothing to sneeze at and I'm super delicious.

Jeff Sankoff:

All those aid stations.

Jeff Sankoff:

Yeah, that's pretty am amazing.

Jeff Sankoff:

That's incredible.

Jeff Sankoff:

Luke, do you think you'll go back and do another Ironman?

Speaker A:

I definitely want to do another one.

Speaker A:

Probably not next year just because the focus is heavily on Marbella, but probably the year afterwards I might even put my full focus into justice.

Jeff Sankoff:

All right, I'll look forward to seeing you compete in Oceanside and hopefully get to race with you again in Marbella because I've got my slot so I will watch you qualify in Oceanside so we can and race together in Marbella.

Jeff Sankoff:

That'll be awesome.

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Jeff Sankoff:

Luke, I can't thank you enough for your time today.

Jeff Sankoff:

This was a fascinating conversation.

Jeff Sankoff:

Speaking to someone with such an interesting background who's come to triathlon and is doing as well as you are right from the get go.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's really pretty amazing and I look forward to watching your career.

Jeff Sankoff:

Do you think you have any aspirations to going pro?

Speaker A:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

So I think this year, you know, focus with Lance, get, not get as you out of the way but like sort of.

Speaker A:

I want to really put a lot of focus in this year.

Speaker A:

I think there's a lot of improvements to be made and my training is very different.

Speaker A:

more volume and then I think:

Jeff Sankoff:

Awesome.

Jeff Sankoff:

We will be very excited to see your progress and have you back and hear about what it's like being a professional triathlete coming out of the age group ranks with the success that you've had.

Jeff Sankoff:

Luke, I can't thank you enough for being here today.

Jeff Sankoff:

Thanks again for joining me on the tridarc podcast.

Jeff Sankoff:

It's been a great conversation.

Speaker A:

Thanks very much.

Speaker A:

Appreciate you see the top of my lungs.

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The TR pack ass will be back on faster than you can say.

Justin Rayfield:

Is it race day yet with more medical music than another chat with the multisport maven?

Justin Rayfield:

Until then train like a beast.

Justin Rayfield:

Enjoy the podcast.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for The TriDoc Podcast, triathlon and health in one place
The TriDoc Podcast, triathlon and health in one place
Train hard, train healthy, spend wisely

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About your host

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Jeffrey Sankoff

Jeff Sankoff is an emergency physician, multiple Ironman finisher and the TriDoc. Jeff owns TriDoc Coaching and is a coach with LifeSport Coaching. Living in Denver with his wife and three children, Jeff continues to race triathlons while producing the TriDoc podcast.