Episode 199
Ep. 199 -The Pros Closet: Trading Bikes and Telling Tales + the Meniscus
In this episode:
We're diving into the wonderfully chaotic world of triathlons today, where you can go from "just trying out this whole biking thing" to obsessively collecting high-end gear faster than you can say "Dura-Ace." Our guest, Justin England from the Pro's Closet, is here to spill the tea on how they turned a near bankruptcy into a comeback story that’s got us all buzzing. We’re talking about the ins and outs of buying and selling used bikes, because let’s face it—triathlon gear can make your wallet weep. Plus, we’ll share some juicy tidbits from my own experience scoring a killer gravel bike at a fraction of the price—because who doesn’t love a good deal? So whether you’re looking to offload your old ride or snag a sweet upgrade, buckle up, because we’re about to pedal through all the details you need to know!
Segments:
[13:40]- Medical Mailbag: Meniscus Tears
[42:28]- Interview:Justin England
Links
Transcript
I'm sure there's a lot of riders who are one and done, but there are plenty of people who get into triathlon just like cycling or running or any other sport and become obsessed with it.
Speaker A:And so you go from riding a road bike with clip ons to buying a 6 year old PC or P series bike with 105 to getting a bike with Ultegra to getting a bike with Dura.
Speaker A:So it's the Pros Closet because we buy and sell will make you fair offers on your old bike and you can spend those dollars on either a new bike in the primary market if that's what you want to do ticket, or you can get another used one from us and just grow your your bike with your experience.
Speaker B:Hello and welcome once again to the Tridock Podcast.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:Coming to you as always from beautiful sunny Denver, Colorado.
Speaker B:The voice you heard before mine at the beginning of the show was that of my guest today, Justin England.
Speaker B:Justin is the Chief Financial Officer of the Pro's Closet company that is always willing to take your used bikes that are sitting in the garage, not perhaps being ridden anymore, refurbish them, get them all spruced up and sell them to another rider who might be willing to take advantage of the fact that you're just not using that bike anymore.
Speaker B:The Pros Closet has been around for several years.
Speaker B:It underwent a little bit of a tectonic shift when they briefly went bankrupt last year, but they are back and they are doing great and Justin is here to talk to me about their business model, how the company is going, and I will share with you my own personal experience using their services.
Speaker B:I recently purchased a gravel bike.
Speaker B:It's a bike that is several years old, but I got to tell you, when I I got it, it is like new.
Speaker B:It is a purchase that I've been incredibly happy with and I will share all the details of my own experience with the Pro's Closet and give you a sense of where you can really make your dollars go a lot further in a triathlon experience.
Speaker B:Because triathlon is a area that the Pro's Closet is seeing a lot of growth.
Speaker B:And Justin is here to tell me about the company, about how they are moving into triathlon to try and answer that need.
Speaker B:Because as of course we all know triathlon bikes aren't cheaper, but there are a lot of them out there that are lightly used and can be found on tpc.
Speaker B:So we will have that conversation.
Speaker B:It's coming up in just a little while.
Speaker B:Before that, I will be joined, as always, by my friend and colleague Juliet Hockman for the Medical mailbag when we answer listener questions.
Speaker B:And that listener question in today's episode comes in the form of a question related to orthopedic injuries, specifically injuries of the meniscus, the cartilage that lines the knee.
Speaker B:Is it necessary to have surgery if one sustains a knee injury that involves the meniscus?
Speaker B:We have a growing body of experience and some literature now that suggests that knee surgeries, which are done really in very large numbers for an injury that is increasingly common amongst people who are active, that being specifically injuries to the meniscus, may not have the kinds of results that we hope for.
Speaker B:So the question has become, do we need to operate on minuscule injuries?
Speaker B:And if so, can we actually hope for the kinds of results that we'd like to see, which is return to activity that we had prior to the injury occurring?
Speaker B:We'll look at what evidence there is on this subject.
Speaker B:We'll harken back to my conversations with orthopedic surgeon and researcher Dr. Kevin Stone, who was here just a couple of short months ago to talk about something similar.
Speaker B:And we will share with you what we were able to find on this subject that is of a lot of importance to people who are in the endurance sport community.
Speaker B:Before we get to all of that though, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the unfortunate goings on that took place in Hamburg this past weekend at the Ironman Hamburg.
Speaker B:This is an incredibly popular race on the Ironman circuit.
Speaker B:It has, as always, a stellar pro field and this past weekend was no different.
Speaker B:The pro field that lined up for at least the women's race that was a big marquee event on the Ironman Pro Series was phenomenal.
Speaker B:Solveig Lovecig came off the bike in place.
Speaker B:She stormed her way to first and was able to hold off a hard charging Laura Philip in order to secure the victory.
Speaker B:Solvig is really looking like that win in Kona last year was not a fluke by any means.
Speaker B:She is really establishing herself at the top of the women's field in the Ironman distance and she looks like a real force to reckon with.
Speaker B:She will be very hard to beat when they get to the Big island and defending her championship is going to be something that I look forward to watching her do.
Speaker B:So we will see how that all goes but that really wasn't the only story that took place in Germany.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, there seems to have been some malfeasance on the part of people who live along part of the route on the eastern section of the course.
Speaker B:I myself am not terribly familiar with this area of Germany, nor am I really all that familiar with the history of this race.
Speaker B:But as is common for a lot of these events in Europe, the roads get completely closed and this is for the safety and security of the race itself and of course of all of the people who are participating in it.
Speaker B:And it appears that in one particular area where the race was taking place, this was not being very well received by the people who live there.
Speaker B:Now, I've commented many times about races in North America and how we don't close our roads and how even then people who live along these routes tend to be not terribly welcoming.
Speaker B:They don't like to be inconvenienced for half a day or in the case of an ironman, maybe as much as a full day when the bike course needs to be extended as long as it often does over the course of an ironman race.
Speaker B:And this has been something that has, at least for me, been something that I've been a little bit incredulous about.
Speaker B:I could certainly understand for businesses, I could certainly understand.
Speaker B:For people who live along the route it can be an inconvenience, I certainly understand that.
Speaker B:But for one day a year it seems to me that given the benefits that come to the community and if you can at least know well in advance, which most people do, you can plan accordingly to either not be in the area or a lot of people do who live along these routes.
Speaker B:They just choose to embrace the whole thing and they set up alongside the route and they enjoy the day spectating and cheering people on.
Speaker B:Usually in Europe when you see these roads closed, the Europeans are kind of used to this.
Speaker B:You see this in France and Italy with bike races continuously closing down routes.
Speaker B:And their is a madness amongst the people who love to spectate these races, as you will know if you've ever watched one of these things that people love to be out there and cheering on their heroes on bikes.
Speaker B:And triathlon is not terribly different in that respect.
Speaker B:I've been to two or three different races now in Europe and the roads get completely closed and they are for the most part very well supported.
Speaker B:People don't tend to get terribly upset.
Speaker B:Now we heard how the 70.3 World Championships in Nice were under a certain amount of threat this year from the mayor.
Speaker B:Part of it is that he was saying he didn't want to have to close the roads.
Speaker B:Now, I don't know how much of that was due to a sentiment in the area that people didn't want to share their roads with the race or how much of it was really the fiscal issue, which seems to be the major motivating factor behind the threat to lose the race there.
Speaker B:At any rate, in Hamburg, there seems to be, as I mentioned earlier, this area in the race where it really wasn't welcome.
Speaker B:And so people went out and actually scattered shards of metal along the route.
Speaker B:And this caused a lot of grief for participants, particularly in the age groups.
Speaker B:I don't know if it happened after the pros passed.
Speaker B:I don't know why the pros didn't seem to be affected by it.
Speaker B:But basically large numbers of age groupers, like really absurd numbers.
Speaker B:I've heard anything from a third to half of the age group participants sustained flats.
Speaker B:I've heard that at least one individual had a significant crash that caused an injury because of a flat.
Speaker B:So it was a lot of impact on the race and on age groupers who spend an inordinate amount of time and effort and money traveling to and training for these races.
Speaker B:And to have it come undone because somebody was pissed off because they couldn't get access to the roads for half a day or three quarters of a day, just to me is yet again another example of a lack of tolerance and this mentality of me over everybody else that we are continuing to see in all aspects of our life and in the world around us that I think is an.
Speaker B:An absolute crying shame.
Speaker B:And I just don't know what to say.
Speaker B:I think it's just horrible.
Speaker B:And maybe part of this falls on the organizers for not dealing with this and getting out front.
Speaker B:If they knew that there was this degree of animosity.
Speaker B:I don't know if they knew this or not.
Speaker B:Certainly if there was any suspicion that this kind of thing could happen because of this level of anger, they definitely should have at least had a conversation with the people who were being the most vocal or potentially considered a rerouting of the bike course, if that was possible in the area where this was potentially going to be a problem.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I wasn't there.
Speaker B:I certainly didn't hear anything about this before all of this came to pass.
Speaker B:So it's kind of hard for me to opine on exactly what could have been done or what should have been done.
Speaker B:All I know is that here we are now in the aftermath of this happening.
Speaker B:And I have to wonder to myself, is this a risk to happen again?
Speaker B:Now we've seen this kind of thing before.
Speaker B:People have behaved badly like this at Ironman races, 70.3 races around the world.
Speaker B:We've seen it in North America, we've seen it in Europe.
Speaker B:So it could happen again.
Speaker B:But I don't think we've ever seen it happen to this level where so many athletes were impacted.
Speaker B:And I think it's just an absolute crying shame.
Speaker B:And again, it just demonstrates this kind of selfishness and absolute lack of consideration for anybody else.
Speaker B:And it just blows me away that people can be this short sighted and so put off by something as trivial as this.
Speaker B:So again, I want to be cognizant that clearly people's livelihoods are obviously impacted to some degree when businesses get impacted with road closures.
Speaker B:And I know that last year when I visited with the people who were organizing the 70.3 in tri cities, there were conversations about how could we make businesses whole when they're losing half a day of business because we are impacting them with the closure of the roads around this race.
Speaker B:And there were a whole bunch of conversations about let's get the local chamber of commerce involved to understand the benefits of the race from all of these people coming in and let's show them how losing one half day is actually made up in other means, in other ways.
Speaker B:So I think that outreach is certainly something that can be done and athletes obviously can also do something to bring business to these affected areas when they can.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of ways that we can be proactive.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, it's still going to come down to these individuals who are taking these actions to have the compassion to recognize that their actions are, are really not the best way to express their frustration because it impacts people who have absolutely nothing to do with the decision making and is just having an effect that is so unmeasurable to them and really not affecting any change whatsoever.
Speaker B:So I think it's tragic that this happened.
Speaker B:I certainly feel terrible for anybody who is actually injured and I really hope that we don't see this kind of spectacle at any races for the rest of this year and even beyond.
Speaker B:Although human nature being what it is, I can only fear for the fact that we probably will.
Speaker B:So let's hope that things will be better.
Speaker B:Were you involved at all in Ironman Hamburg?
Speaker B:Did you witness any of this?
Speaker B:Do you have any more insights to share?
Speaker B:I hope that you'll let me know.
Speaker B:Send me an email tridocloud.com or head on over to the private Facebook group.
Speaker B:You can ask to join if you're not already a member.
Speaker B:There's a couple of very easy questions you can answer over there.
Speaker B:I'll gain you admittance.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this subject.
Speaker B:Whatever your feelings might be on this.
Speaker B:It's time to discuss on the medical mailbag the conversation about miniscule injuries of the knee and whether or not we should have thought about surgery and whether or not surgery can restore function the way we hope it will.
Speaker B:Let's take a look at the evidence that's coming up right after this quick break.
Speaker B:It's that time of the program once again when I'm joined by my friend and colleague Juliet Hockman from beautiful Port Hood.
Speaker B:Port Hood, Fort Hood.
Speaker B:I'm all over the place.
Speaker B:Hood River, I have no idea.
Speaker B:Hood River, Oregon.
Speaker B:And here I am in Denver, Colorado, across the middle of the country from where she is.
Speaker B:But ever.
Speaker B:I just got the alert today that we're in five weeks of when I will be seeing you.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:Can you believe that?
Speaker C:It's always a little bit of a panic when that thing shows up.
Speaker C:Five weeks away, six weeks away.
Speaker C:Even if I look at some of my athletes events in the fall, they're like 16 weeks away or something like that.
Speaker C:It still seems so even 24 weeks.
Speaker B:Well, the summer just marches by so quickly, Right?
Speaker B:But this past weekend was a huge weekend for Ironman at 70.3 events all across North America and around the world.
Speaker B:There were so many high profile events and it's just gonna start.
Speaker B:The drumbeat is just gonna start now throughout the summer.
Speaker B:And I love that.
Speaker B:But at the same time, yeah, it's the passage of time that just goes quickly.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker B:We're still waiting.
Speaker C:Absurdly, yes, we are still waiting.
Speaker C:I exactly know what you're gonna say because it's on my mind every single day.
Speaker B:And it's funny because we've been talking about it.
Speaker B:You and I and Matt have been talking about it for weeks.
Speaker B:And now all of a sudden, I'm starting to see almost daily Facebook posts, Instagram posts from people also now chiming in and they're all like, dude, what is going on?
Speaker B:When are we gonna know where the world championships are for 27 and everybody?
Speaker B:Because it's now.
Speaker B:We are the last, the last race.
Speaker C:And that's in two weeks.
Speaker C:I know, it's shocking to me.
Speaker C:There's gotta be backstory here.
Speaker C:And we'd even Asked our Iron man friends, right?
Speaker C:And they're like, I don't know.
Speaker B:They have no idea.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's wild.
Speaker B:Wild to me.
Speaker C:It's really wild.
Speaker C:And not only that, but of course, now nice.
Speaker C:20, 28 Is also in.
Speaker B:Jeffrey, you gotta think that's not happening.
Speaker B:That I figured 27, 28 are both up in the air.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:But 29, we're going to a month.
Speaker C:I know, exactly.
Speaker C:That one's in question, too.
Speaker C:It is crazy to me.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I'm a little bit obsessive compulsive about planning.
Speaker C:And so for seven months, I've been like, when is it?
Speaker C:When is it?
Speaker C:When is it?
Speaker C:But now the whole world writ large is getting a little bit concerned.
Speaker C:We gotta make plans.
Speaker C:Iron man, come on.
Speaker B:It's crazy.
Speaker B:It's crazy to me.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I'm very anxious and I'm actually, like, ramping up my training quite a bit because I had a better day than I expected in Victoria.
Speaker B:It didn't do great or anything, but it was better than I hoped for.
Speaker B:And so I'm thinking I can springboard off of that and have a decent day in Oregon maybe.
Speaker B:And who knows, maybe I could snag something, maybe get a spot.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker B:I haven't even decided if I'm going to race next year because life is so up in the air for me.
Speaker B:What's going to happen in 27.
Speaker B:But if I were to get a slot for Worlds, I would definitely want to do that.
Speaker B:Depending on where it is, particularly if.
Speaker C:It's in North America, which the rumor is it will be here.
Speaker C:And it does make it a lot easier logistically if it's within our walls, so to speak.
Speaker C:Come on, people.
Speaker B:It's about us.
Speaker B:We need to know.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:And I've got two sons getting married next year and a short course World Championships, and I only have two out of four dates.
Speaker C:And I'm like, come on, people.
Speaker B:Yeah, we can only hope, like you said, Kurt, Alan's the last one.
Speaker B:And it's in two weeks, so they've got to give us some answers soon.
Speaker B:So, anyways, well, I know I'll hear.
Speaker C:From you the minute it happens.
Speaker B:All of that to say all of this banter is the presage to the medical mailbag when we are going to answer a listener question.
Speaker B:And we have another listener question.
Speaker B:We are so fortunate.
Speaker B:We've had a lot of good listener questions coming in, and we have another good one today.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So what are we gonna be talking about today, Juliet?
Speaker C:This is Actually funny because it's coming from one of my athletes whose name is also Jeff.
Speaker C:And I can probably count on both hands a number of times that I have texted you a text that was meant for him or texted him a text that was meant for you because you're always on the top when I type in Jeff.
Speaker C:Anyway, so sorry about that.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Anyway, sorry, dog in the background.
Speaker C:Apologize for that.
Speaker C:So this question comes from Jeffrey B.
Speaker C:And he had seen an article in the lay press about meniscal tear surgery.
Speaker C:And we all know about this.
Speaker C:If we haven't had it done to us, then we know people who have had these surgeries and apparently there's over a million of these surgeries a year in the United States.
Speaker C:And so Jeff's question was simply, are they effective now?
Speaker C:Of course.
Speaker C:What does that mean?
Speaker C:Are they effective?
Speaker C:And so we're gonna get into that.
Speaker C:I know, but it's a great question.
Speaker C:And I'm curious what your team found out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it harkens back to a guest we had not too long ago now, Dr. Kevin Stone, who was on the program, a famous researcher in this space who spends a lot of time looking at the kinds of surgeries that we're going to talk about on this episode.
Speaker B:And so I will throw back a little bit to the things that he told us because a lot of the research really reinforces what he had to say when he came to visit.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:You're right, these.
Speaker B:I played hockey growing up, skied and did a lot of sports that put a lot of angular and torquing forces on the knee.
Speaker B:And I was at very high risk for having a knee injury and knock on wood, been very fortunate that I haven't had any issues.
Speaker B:I know you as a rower.
Speaker C:Both knees, baby.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Rowing is a very non lateral sport, a very linear sport.
Speaker C:And so that wouldn't actually not like the sports that you played, would cause a meniscal tear.
Speaker C:You never see that in rowers, but just through license training and other activities.
Speaker C:I have actually had two repairs, one this last December and one three Decembers ago, different knees.
Speaker C:And for me, I can say this has been a huge success for what I want to do now.
Speaker C:Would I go out and play tennis tomorrow?
Speaker C:Probably not.
Speaker B:Your meniscal tears were associated with ACL injuries or.
Speaker C:No, I have had two ACL repairs, but they were way back in the 90s when I was in my early 20s.
Speaker C:So I don't think it's related.
Speaker C:One minute both surgeries, they were doing other stuff while they were in there.
Speaker C:One was this, like, cyclops lesion, and the other was this other thing.
Speaker C:It was more complicated diagnosis.
Speaker C:But certainly when they were in there, they shaved.
Speaker C:Now, they didn't repair the meniscus.
Speaker C:That's a whole other conversation.
Speaker C:They actually just kind of shaved down the loose pieces.
Speaker C:So it didn't cause any inflammation or pain or that type of thing.
Speaker B:All right, let's just talk about what is the meniscus, the knee.
Speaker B:Like, I say this every time we get into anatomy.
Speaker B:I say, oh, it's a very complicated joint.
Speaker B:And the knee, yet again, very complicated joint.
Speaker B:It's two bones, three if you count the fibula, which doesn't really play a role in the joint.
Speaker B:The femur, which is your thigh bone, and the tibia, which is your shin bone, interact at the knee.
Speaker B:And then overlying that is the patella or the kneecap, which you don't really think about unless you injure it, when you definitely know it's a highly innervated structure.
Speaker B:But the knee itself is kept together by four major ligaments.
Speaker B:There are the lateral and medial collateral ligaments, which maintain the shin bone and thigh bone on together.
Speaker B:Basically keep them together from slipping apart medially or laterally.
Speaker B:I'm making movements if you're watching a video.
Speaker B:And then there are the anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments, which cross within the joint, and they hold the bones from moving forward and back.
Speaker B:But also, when you twist, they keep the bones from over, rotating one on the other.
Speaker B:So structurally, these ligaments are very strong.
Speaker B:They anchor bone to bone.
Speaker B:There are a bunch of tendons and muscles that go across the joint as well, which are also very integral in the structural integrity of the joint.
Speaker B:Now, as the femur and the tibia interact with each other, there are two very dense fibrous plates of cartilage called the meniscus.
Speaker B:There is the medial meniscus and the lateral meniscus.
Speaker B:In terms of the actual structural function, the medial meniscus is more important because it bears more weight and it has more contact.
Speaker B:But the lateral meniscus is pretty important over time as well.
Speaker B:Both of these are made of connective tissue.
Speaker B:They are, for the most part, laid down when you are a child nearing adolescence.
Speaker B:And once they are laid down, they're pretty much there for your life.
Speaker B:They do undergo a certain amount of remodeling, especially if, as we've mentioned previously on this program, if you are very active when you run and you have impact on those cartilage, on those meniscus, you actually, you encourage Growth factors.
Speaker B:You encourage recycling of some of that tissue so that it actually becomes healthier.
Speaker B:But for the most part, you're not gonna.
Speaker B:If you injure the meniscus, if you have a tear, if you have some kind of degeneration, the structures are such that they don't regrow.
Speaker B:And the reason for that is because the meniscus and the cartilage in the knee are essentially which.
Speaker B:The cartilage functions as a lubricating tissue.
Speaker B:It allows the bones to move across each other without friction.
Speaker B:And it also has a cushioning function so that every time you step down, every time you run or jump, those meniscus allow for a certain amount of cushioning of bone on bone.
Speaker B:They also don't have a lot of blood vessels in them.
Speaker B:The meniscus you could think of, if you were to look down on the meniscus, it would be pretty circular.
Speaker B:And on the outside of the meniscus, the very sort of outer rim of the dish, if you will, has a certain amount of vasculature, and it's actually called red cartilage, whereas the inner part of the meniscus is white cartilage.
Speaker B:It's pretty much avascular.
Speaker B:Injuries that occur on the outside, on the rim have a propensity or a potential to heal a little bit.
Speaker B:Not great, but a little bit.
Speaker B:Whereas injuries to the central part of the dish, if you have injuries there, they just won't heal right, because there's no vascular, there's no blood flow there, and anything that happens there is just permanent.
Speaker B:So over time, surgeries have been developed to address problems with the meniscus, because meniscal tears are the most common knee injuries that we see, much more common than ligamentous injuries.
Speaker B:And they occur in traumatic injuries, where you have a twisting injury, where you have a sudden impact, where you have a fracture below.
Speaker B:There's a variety of reasons you can get a meniscule injury.
Speaker B:And those injuries usually come in the nature of a tear, a small tear of the cartilage, usually starting at the outer portion, moving inwards, but they can begin from the central portion and move outwards.
Speaker B:And when you get a tear in the cartilage, and you tend to get an uneven surface, and that uneven surface causes friction, it causes pain, it causes inflammation.
Speaker B:And so you end up getting fluid within the knee joint, which causes swelling of the joint capsule, which also causes pain.
Speaker B:But most importantly, especially, certain kinds of tears in the meniscus can actually cause flaps of cartilage, which can impede upon motion and can actually cause Locking of the knee, either locking in the bent or straight position.
Speaker B:So you actually get people who will complain of, my knee is locked straight, I can't get it to bend or it's bent, and I can't straighten it out perfectly because there's this piece of cartilage that's blocking the knee from actually extending or flexing properly.
Speaker B:So those are the major issues that come about when you have cartilage injuries.
Speaker B:And over time, orthopedic surgeons have approached this by doing a surgery, a endoscopic surgery where they insert a scope, they look around, and then they have tools that they can insert into the knee joint.
Speaker B:Initially, they used to do this as an open procedure, but those were fraught with all kinds of major problems.
Speaker B:For years, what they've done is they find the damaged cartilage, they cut out the damage, they trim the cartilage, they make it nice and neat, and then they come back out and the person goes back to doing what they were doing pretty quickly.
Speaker B:This was the way things were done for a very long time.
Speaker B:And cartilage injuries were seen from, as I said, traumatic things or from degenerative things, as we see with people who have osteoarthritis.
Speaker B:Osteoarthritis develops when the cartilage is worn down over time, and eventually you end up with cartilage just wearing away completely, and you end up with bone on bone, and you have all kinds of problems then, but as the cartilage is wearing down, that cartilage can fray, it can cause problems, and you have issues with, again, problems with the knee working properly, and the surgeons may have to go in, trim away some of that cartilage.
Speaker B:So over time, there has been this sense of, look, we've been doing this wonderful surgery.
Speaker B:We seem to give people some symptom relief, at least initially.
Speaker B:But is this actually leading to benefits?
Speaker B:And so after many years of doing this, people finally decided, let's look back and see where we've been and if it.
Speaker B:It's helped.
Speaker B:So I want to thank Cosette Rhodes, the intern who took a look at this.
Speaker B:She found a couple of really nice review papers on this.
Speaker B: authors published a paper in: Speaker B:Osteoarthritis and Cartilage.
Speaker B:And, sorry, in the journal Osteoarthritis and Cartilage.
Speaker B: And then another paper from: Speaker B:And this specifically had to do with meniscus tears in elite athletes, treatment considerations, clinical outcomes and returns to play.
Speaker B:And this is obviously very pertinent to us when we look at what we're looking at, especially with your experience, which has been so good.
Speaker B:Do you know if you had an excision or a repair?
Speaker C:Oh, not a repair.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Repair is, I think, from what I understand, a totally different kettle of fish and a much higher risk in terms of successful outcomes.
Speaker B:You did not have.
Speaker C:Did not.
Speaker C:No, they were just excised.
Speaker B:They're just trimming.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So in the past, this has been the way things have done is they've gone in, they've just trimmed things out and tried to tidy things up.
Speaker B:And what they have found over and over again is that short term, these have general, pretty good benefits.
Speaker B:People can return to activity.
Speaker B:And I think when the question in this article, do they do any good?
Speaker B:I think what we're really thinking of is, can we get back to activity?
Speaker B:Can we go back to doing what we wanted to do?
Speaker B:In terms of.
Speaker B:That's part one of the question.
Speaker B:And then part two of the question is, what are the long term outcomes?
Speaker B:We have talked previously about ACL tears and about the potentially pretty significant long term outcomes of that.
Speaker B:And even when you have an ACL repair that many years down the road, people who've had ACL repairs have much worse or much higher incidence of osteoarthritis and other kinds of degenerative knee problems because the repair is just not as good as your native ligament.
Speaker B:So we know that people who've had ACL repair, especially at a young age, and especially those who continue to be active and do all kinds of running and doing all those things, will have degenerative knee problems later on in life.
Speaker B:A trade off.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because not getting the ACL repaired is much worse.
Speaker B:So the question here is, is this help?
Speaker B:And it turns out that the traditional way of doing this, just going in, cleaning up the meniscus, has actually been found to help people get back to activities.
Speaker B:But long term might not be the best way.
Speaker B:And this is what Dr. Stone was saying when he came to visit.
Speaker B:He was saying, whenever possible, the research is moving in the direction that if it is at all possible, especially the more central a tear is, the more central a deficit is, is repair.
Speaker B:Primary repair of the meniscus should be attempted every single time.
Speaker B:And the reason it wasn't attempted in the past is because surgical techniques were such that when you tried to repair it, you didn't end up with a perfectly smooth surface, you ended up with sutures that kind of bumped up and it left you with a surface that caused more problems than anything else.
Speaker B:But now techniques have improved, surgical approaches have gotten better.
Speaker B:And so now they're much better at getting a very smooth, very nice result of the meniscus.
Speaker B:So that it actually is very close to the way it was prior to the surgery.
Speaker B:And it turns out that if you can repair it, and this is not going to be true all the time, especially with peripheral tears, peripheral fraying of the cartilage, anytime you have loose bodies, those kinds of things are not going to be amenable to repair.
Speaker B:But central tears, tears, bucket handle tears, potentially tears that extend from the periphery into the central.
Speaker B:Those kinds of tears whenever possible.
Speaker B:And again, this is going to be very dependent on surgeons because you're going to.
Speaker B:Not every surgeon is comfortable doing this.
Speaker B:Not every surgeon has experience doing this.
Speaker B:But surgeons who are good at doing this and have the experience should attempt a primary repair.
Speaker B:And if you are somebody who has a meniscus injury, especially acute, chronic ones, tend to be the ones like Juliet had, where it's much more fraying.
Speaker B:There's really nothing to repair.
Speaker B:It just has to be clean.
Speaker B:But if you have an acute injury, that's where there's an opportunity to repair things.
Speaker B:And anytime you can do a repair, that is really what you want to.
Speaker C:Be looking for now, doesn't it have to be something?
Speaker C:The way it's explained to me is that led into what you were saying earlier about these meniscus are molded in our teen years.
Speaker C:And then that's it.
Speaker C:It was explained to me that it was all about blood supply.
Speaker C:And certain parts of the meniscus had a good blood supply and certain parts didn't.
Speaker C:And so their ability to repair had a lot to do with where exactly tear was as to whether they could repair it or not, whether it actually would heal itself because there was such a limited blood supply.
Speaker B:So I think that was the way it used to be approached that if you were.
Speaker B:If you had a lateral tear where there was blood supply, they would try to repair it.
Speaker B:And if you had a central tear where there's not good blood supply, the white cartilage, then they would not.
Speaker B:They would just cut things out because it wouldn't heal.
Speaker B:But I guess nowadays they're changing that sort of approach.
Speaker B:They seem to believe that they can can put factors into the knee that not prp, but those kinds of growth factors that they can do something that can actually help with improving growth, improving healing, so that the primary repair takes and actually improves.
Speaker B:It's still to be determined because this is an evolving kind of field.
Speaker B:But I thought it was pretty interesting and I thought also what was interesting was this question of do you always need surgery?
Speaker B:And we found a paper that looked at that specific question and basically what we were able to find is, look, there are gonna be some people who do get a tear that initially causes them some symptoms, but after a period of time it might quiet down.
Speaker B:And it turns out that if your symptoms are mild and the limits on activity are minimal, and this is gonna be obviously a very specific substance, personal decision.
Speaker B:But there are gonna be some people who fit into this.
Speaker B:For minimally symptomatic meniscus tears, it turns out that non operative treatment is highly successful and you can get pain relief and functional improvement in about 70 to 90% of patients with outcomes that are typically excellent for degenerative or stable tears, allowing a return to baseline activities while avoiding all of the risks of surgery.
Speaker B:So those conservative management are going to include injections in the knee, sometimes with anti inflammatory.
Speaker B:It's going to include taking anti inflammatory medications, certainly a lot of pt.
Speaker B:It may end up being a longer kind of road to recovery.
Speaker B:But it's not like knee surgery gets you right back either.
Speaker B:It is a bit of a road back.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:How long did it take you after your last surgery?
Speaker C:The last surgery was December and I'm back.
Speaker C:I think it's.
Speaker C:I think it depends a lot on the individual and how strong and healthy they are going into it, right?
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker C:Yeah, always 100%.
Speaker C:And also how, how obsessive they are about doing the strength work starting immediately afterwards and just being so on it.
Speaker C:And that really is about the individual and how much time they have and what their goal is like, what their timeline is, everything else.
Speaker B:So my wife tore her ACL in February, she had her surgery pretty soon after, and here we are in early June.
Speaker B:And she's doing almost everything now.
Speaker B:She's not a runner, so she's not back to running or anything, but.
Speaker B:But she's doing.
Speaker B:Now she's the poster child for this because she's had such an easy sort of course coming back.
Speaker B:But it is possible to have a pretty quick return to activities.
Speaker B:But it's not, it's gonna, like you said, I think it's gonna be very individual.
Speaker B:But the idea that you don't have to have surgery all the time I think is something that people can take solace in.
Speaker B:Especially again, it has to be A small injury and it has to be very mild in terms of symptoms.
Speaker B:So it's going to be very selective group of people to whom that applies, but it is a possible avenue to take.
Speaker B:Now I do want to also point out that there are newer kind of experimental things that are coming.
Speaker B:There are meniscus allograft transplants where basically you can get a cadaveric allograft or a cadaveric meniscus.
Speaker B:Because the meniscus doesn't get much blood flow, it tends to not attract a lot of attention from the immune system system.
Speaker B:So you could potentially put a meniscus in there.
Speaker B:Now this is considered right now a salvage procedure.
Speaker B:It may reduce pain and improve function for people, but at this point it's reserved for really elite athletes who are.
Speaker B:Their whole livelihood is dependent on getting some kind of activity back.
Speaker B:But for the most part it's not considered a first line treatment.
Speaker B:You're not going to see this so much with just any person.
Speaker B:And I think that the take home that we got from this is that athletes who undergo meniscal repair generally experience very high return to sport rates, but the rehab is much longer than if they do just a simple meniscectomy.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of choices, a lot of things that have to go into this personal decision.
Speaker B:I think if it was me, and I hope it never is, but I think if it was me, if the repair was a potential option, I would want to go the route of the repair because I think the long term is better with the repair.
Speaker B:But acknowledging that the repair is not always an option, that you have to have the right injury, you have to have the right surgeon, you have to have so many things have to line up for that to be there.
Speaker B:But if it was there, I would probably want to go that way because it helps, it preserves native tissue, it helps maintain normal knee biomechanics.
Speaker B:It leaves the cartilage there to protect the joint.
Speaker B:There's just a lot of good things involved with it.
Speaker B:But again, it's gonna be a very personal decision, something that you have to decide with your surgeon.
Speaker B:So I think to answer Jeff's question, it's a yes, no situation.
Speaker B:I think that for the most part, if you are very symptomatic, you really need to have something done because you can't go around with a continuously locking knee, a knee that's swelling up and giving you pain.
Speaker B:Getting the surgery to clean up the meniscus can definitely get you back to your pre injury function, which is a good thing.
Speaker B:So in that way it can work, but the likelihood that it's creating more problems for you down the road is very high.
Speaker B:If you are amenable to having some kind of repair instead of cleaning it out, that is great.
Speaker B:It's gonna take longer to get you back to baseline, but at least you can get back to baseline.
Speaker B:And you will probably get back to baseline in a better state than you would if you had a meniscectomy.
Speaker B:And your long term prognosis is probably better as well.
Speaker B:So it's a nuanced answer to this, as is so often the case with medicine in general.
Speaker B:But I think that we are continuing to see an evolution of this science and an evolution of this procedure.
Speaker B:And I think orthopedic surgeons are acutely aware that many of the people who come to them are active, they're young, and they want to resume that kind of lifestyle and they want them to have that lifestyle for as long as possible.
Speaker B:So, yeah, to be continued, I think.
Speaker C:And I think, well, to be continued in 10 years when we check back to see how my knees are doing, because I'm now six months and then also two and a half years out of each knee.
Speaker C:So I'm so far it's obviously fantastic, but Maybe in another 10 years I'll be be replacements on both sides.
Speaker B:And I'm the same way with my hip, right?
Speaker B:I had the labral reconstruction I had because with the hip labrum surgery, there's been a lot of kind of back and forth as to whether or not this is a successful surgery as well, and who should have it, which procedure should be done, should it be a labral repair versus a labral reconstruction?
Speaker B:Yada, yada, on and on it goes.
Speaker B:And I have been a very great success story for, for the procedure I had.
Speaker B:But the question becomes, am I just the right person?
Speaker B:I was super, like you said, obsessive about the rehab.
Speaker B:I've been very obsessive about staying healthy and fit since then.
Speaker B:I remember the conversation I had with my orthopedic surgeon after.
Speaker B:I was like, can I go back to doing what I want to do?
Speaker B:And he's, I don't see people who do 5Ks.
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, I know, but can I go back and do Ironman?
Speaker B:And he's like, I don't see people who do 5Ks.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, I got it.
Speaker B:But here I am all these years later and Iron Mans and everything else later, still knock on wood again, doing okay.
Speaker B:So I think that when you go into a Procedure like this, the statistics will say something, the probabilities will say a lot of things.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, so much of it is unknown and is stuff that you just can't predict.
Speaker B:And you have to hope for the best.
Speaker C:I want to add two thoughts to that too, is that often with these knee issues, it's not just one simple thing.
Speaker C:It's not just a meniscus pair.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There could be other complicating factors.
Speaker C:Both of my knees had other stuff going on which made it more complicated.
Speaker C:And the surgeon may well say, look, we've had an mri, we have all this imaging, but I'm not really gonna know what's going on until I get in there to see really how bad everything is.
Speaker C:So making no promises, that's one thing to keep in mind, is you have to have a little bit of a leap of faith here.
Speaker C:And then the other thing is, I think it's just really good sort of advice writ large is don't have surgery until you absolutely have to.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Don't just immediately go to surgery as this is the answer.
Speaker C:Put me on the table, cut me open.
Speaker C:I really feel like, because I've had a number of different surgeries, knees, Achilles, all kinds of things.
Speaker C:And I remember that one of the Achilles surgeons was because I was like, how do I know when to have this surgery?
Speaker C:And she said, oh, you'll know.
Speaker C:It just can't go on anymore.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I feel like that was actually really good advice.
Speaker C:And I was able to push it out a couple more years before I had that particular surgery, which was a pretty big surgery.
Speaker C:I think that you, you do all the other things.
Speaker C:You do the strength work, you do the anti inflammatory, you do the injection.
Speaker C:You really do try everything because you don't want to go into surgery until it's.
Speaker C:You really think, okay, I want to continue to run.
Speaker C:I can't go on any further.
Speaker C:Like, now's the time it becomes obvious.
Speaker C:So I guess that's.
Speaker B:I think that's great advice.
Speaker B:I think it's great advice.
Speaker B:I think it's right on the nose, too.
Speaker B:And the only.
Speaker B:The flip side to that is it's always better to do it when you're young and healthy and the more you push it out to when you're suddenly maybe not.
Speaker B:And I know it takes me longer to recover now than it did a year ago.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:So 100%, then you're left going, should I have done it earlier?
Speaker B:I remember we talked to somebody who had hip problems and he finally went and got the hip replacement and he was so happy.
Speaker B:And he was kicking himself for waiting so long because he finally had no pain.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:I agree with you, though.
Speaker B:I think you should delay it as long as possible.
Speaker B:But at the.
Speaker B:On the other hand, it's.
Speaker B:Is there a point where you delayed it too long?
Speaker B:And maybe there's probably a point where you should have got the surgery a little bit earlier.
Speaker B:So how do you know?
Speaker B:How do you know?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:For two.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think it's a.
Speaker B:It's a super interesting conversation.
Speaker B:It's obviously something.
Speaker B:Everybody has to have a conversation with their physician, make those decisions for themselves.
Speaker B:This was a great question, Jeff Rippy.
Speaker B:Thank you, Jeff, so much for sending that in.
Speaker B:We appreciate it.
Speaker B:If you have a question you'd like to hear us take on here on the medical mailbag, I hope that you'll send it in as well.
Speaker B:You can email me@tridocloud.com or you could send it on over to the private Facebook group if you are not already a member.
Speaker B:I hope that you'll search for Tridoc podcast on Facebook, answer the three easy questions.
Speaker B:We will gain you admittance, and we'd love to have you in the group so you can join the conversation there and submit your questions until the next medical mailbag.
Speaker B:Juliet, it was a pleasure, as always.
Speaker B:Take care of those knees and hopefully by the next time we get together, we'll have an answer for where the world championships are going to be.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:All right, Jeff, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:I had the pleasure of meeting my guest on the program today.
Speaker B:The last time, I bought a new bicycle, which is always a good day.
Speaker B:And I was over at the pro's closet, which is local to me here in Denver, Colorado.
Speaker B:And while I was there, I was very impressed with what I saw and I had to have my guest today, Justin England, onto the program to talk about the company.
Speaker B:Company because I know that as my listeners, how expensive triathlon can be.
Speaker B:And the price for entry is, of course, for a lot of people, too much to bear.
Speaker B:And it keeps a lot of people out of our sport.
Speaker B:And I think that's really unfortunate.
Speaker B:I have the great fortune to be able to have a fairly large stable of bicycles.
Speaker B:But this time around, my son and I are partaking in the SBT gravel and I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a new gravel bike.
Speaker B:My son is taking my old gravel bike and I wanted to get something that was going to be good but didn't want to invest in a new bike.
Speaker B:And so the Pro's Closet made a lot of sense.
Speaker B:I had not used their services before, but a friend of mine had on my recommendation, and he'd had a great experience.
Speaker B:And that was before TPC filed for bankruptcy last year.
Speaker B:So I at that time was quite dismayed, but very encouraged when I saw them come back.
Speaker B:So when I went into their offices, I met my guest today, just Justin, who I then asked to come onto the program to talk to us about what happened last year, how they managed to come back where the company is at now, and how you, as triathletes, might be able to take advantage of some of the services that they provide.
Speaker B:I'll also share with you my own experience with the Pro's Closet, which I will tell you right up front, was a really good one, as always.
Speaker B:I bought my product at full price.
Speaker B:I got no compensation.
Speaker B:I have absolutely nothing to gain from having Justin on the program.
Speaker B:I just wanted to share with you you what I think is a very important service that is available to us as triathletes.
Speaker B: but He's been with TPC since: Speaker B:He's also got a history as a professional road cyclist racing here in the United States.
Speaker B:So I look forward to hearing about all of that.
Speaker B:Justin, thank you so much for being here on the tridog podcast today.
Speaker A:Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker A:Really appreciate the opportunity to connect and thank you for supporting our business and giving us the opportunity here to tell our story.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I think first and foremost, maybe tell us because I think it's.
Speaker B:A lot of people are aware of what happened last year, so maybe let's just begin there and get that out of the way.
Speaker B:So what happened with the Pro's Closet that you seem to be doing really well.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden we all heard, oh, they're going out of business.
Speaker B:And then very quickly after that, you re emerged, which is not something we typically hear from companies who enter chapter 11.
Speaker B:So what happened in that period of time?
Speaker B:And why are you on better footing now?
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:It's probably worth honestly rewinding and given the quick history of the company as a whole, both.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: So the company started: Speaker A:Our founder, Nick Martin, was an ex pro mountain biker, started selling his own gear on ebay, then started selling his teammates gear year and it snowballed from there and he shortly built a small business in Boulder, Colorado.
Speaker A:Being A resource for the cycling community in Boulder to just drop off their bikes, their cycling gear.
Speaker A:The pros closet would sell it on ebay under consignment model, and then once it sold, they took a cut and paid out the consigner.
Speaker A:It basically operated under that model, under single ownership under Nick for the first say, decade of the business, but grew steadily.
Speaker A:Boulder is a very dense cycling market, tons of riders, and I think I'd say a relatively affluent community.
Speaker A:So appreciated the, the opportunity to just drop off their stuff, have somebody else deal with the resale of it, and we take a cut.
Speaker A: d then towards the end of the: Speaker A: I started with the company in: Speaker A:How we sourced all of our inventory, which was primarily again from end consumer customers, from individuals, but we also started buying directly from manufacturers, demo fleets, overstock, any type of inventory that needed an outlet.
Speaker A:And then in the end of the end of the 2,000 teens, Nick, over a couple of rounds, sold off the majority of his share in the business.
Speaker A:And the business took on a bunch of venture capital money, which was a blessing and a curse in some ways.
Speaker A:We grew like gangbusters.
Speaker A:Moved into a building in Louisville, Colorado that was 150,000 square feet, if you can believe that.
Speaker A:That hired like crazy.
Speaker A:Invested in growth and then the pandemic hit and everything that actually made everything look like roses for a couple of years there when we were selling pre owned bikes for just astronomical value.
Speaker A:I'm sure everybody who was a cyclist during that time period is probably familiar with how high the price was, how little inventory there was available in the primary market in bike shops, and how high resale values were used.
Speaker A:Bikes were captured.
Speaker A:Everything looked good for a couple of years there during the, call it the venture capital era of tpc, of the pros closet.
Speaker A:But ultimately the entire bike industry went through a crash back down to earth.
Speaker A:Post Covid.
Speaker A:The pros closet was not immune to that.
Speaker A:But VC money expects you to keep going to the moon.
Speaker A: ely in the end of the fall of: Speaker A:It's called an assignment for the benefit of creditors.
Speaker A:But ultimately all of the assets of the pro's closet were sold off.
Speaker A:The physical assets were auctioned off online and then there was Simultaneously, an auction for all of the digital representation of the Pro's closet.
Speaker A:So the customer list, the brand name, the website, all of the digital infrastructure.
Speaker A:And luckily one gentleman bought that entire entity out of the bankruptcy and immediately reached out to myself, my counterpart, JP Gage, who's our now our coo, and our current CEO, John Chaya.
Speaker A:And so he asked, hey, would you guys want to give it another go?
Speaker A:And having been a part of the Pros closet for 17 years, JP's been here for 13 years.
Speaker A:I believe we both stubbornly believe in the business model and what it could mean to both the cycling consumer base as well as the bike industry.
Speaker A:And we said, let's do it.
Speaker A:I think we can help have a firmer hand on the steering wheel the second time around and help steer the ship in a more manageable, controlled growth direction.
Speaker A:And so that's what happened.
Speaker A: End of: Speaker A:We moved into our new warehouse in Thornton, Colorado, which is just five miles north of Denver.
Speaker A:And our new warehouse is 25,000 square feet, so about a sixth of the size of that 150,000 square foot monstrosity that we were in previously.
Speaker A: about the business last year,: Speaker B:That's a really interesting story.
Speaker B:I obviously didn't know half of that.
Speaker B:So now what are you guys doing differently now besides the footprint being smaller, so obviously lower overhead costs, things like that, focusing more on sustainability, sustainable growth.
Speaker B:Growth.
Speaker B:What are you doing differently in terms of your business model that will avoid the problems that you had last time.
Speaker A:Yeah, very fair question.
Speaker A:So we're still leaning into what the Pros closet has always been known for.
Speaker A:And for your audience, if you're not familiar, we buy and sell used bikes.
Speaker A:If you think about it like the used car industry, how you can buy a certified pre owned BMW or certified pre owned Mercedes, we're doing that exact same thing with bikes.
Speaker A:We buy bicycles from people all over the country, have them shipped to our headquarters here in Thornton, Colorado, put them through a refurbishment process, take excellent photos of them and list them for sale on our website and then ship them back out to new owners all around the country.
Speaker A:So we're leaning back into what the pros closet's always been known for.
Speaker A:During the VC era, it was growth at all costs, which meant we were overpaying for bikes.
Speaker A:Bikes.
Speaker A:It meant that we stubbornly Held on to overpriced bikes trying to capture as much margin as we could.
Speaker A:It meant that we started selling new bikes which I think that ultimately created confusion among the consumer base of what is the pros closet.
Speaker A:I thought you guys reused bikes.
Speaker A:Why are you selling new bikes now?
Speaker A:As well as honestly put us in direct competition with the bike dealer base, the independent bike dealer base across the country.
Speaker A:So this second time around we're not targeting selling new inventory at all.
Speaker A:Making sure that we're, we're clearly the experts in certified pre owned bicycles and making sure that we're a healthy part of the bike industry instead of being a potential competitor to the rest of the industry.
Speaker B:That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker B:All right, I'm going to go through my experience and then I want you to give me a sense of what it would look like for somebody doing the opposite of what I did.
Speaker B:So I went in as a buyer and I was looking for a gravel bike and I went on your site.
Speaker B:I knew what size I am and so I put in in my size and started watching for several months basically as bikes would rotate through your inventory and narrowed down to different kinds of bikes.
Speaker B: cialized S works diverge from: Speaker B:No idea what kind of mileage was on it of course because it's not a car so it's not the same kind of thing.
Speaker B:The pictures on there were excellent.
Speaker B:Very straightforward in terms of what kinds of cosmetic issues there were.
Speaker B:It is a carbon bike and this is something that I did find myself in the back of my mind wondering because we're always warned as consumers, be careful with buying used carbon bikes.
Speaker B:There was nothing about whether or not the bike had been crashed.
Speaker B:It was nothing about.
Speaker B:I was kind of going on a leap of faith there and I will interrupt on my own experience and ask you what kind of guarantees do you give consumers that their carbon frame is not going to have some kind of hidden traumas or fractures?
Speaker A:Yep, yep.
Speaker A:So every bike when it comes through our operation goes through 141 point inspection for the frames.
Speaker A:In particular we're going over with a fine tooth comb looking for any suspect cosmetic damage.
Speaker A:And then we use.
Speaker A:It's effectively a tap hammer that has a resonance feature so it can listen to the difference how it's.
Speaker A:How it sounds differently when you're tapping on the cosmetic damage versus around the cosmetic damage damage.
Speaker A:And that gives us an indication of whether the actual structural integrity of the carbon has been affected and if it does, if it has been affected, then we, we do one of two things.
Speaker A:We either strip all the parts off and sell what we can to recoup value, or more often than not, we work with a partner here in Boulder, Colorado, that's called Broken Carbon, that does carbon repair.
Speaker A:So we'll get the frames repaired and at that point, really all you have is a cosmetic issue.
Speaker A:You, the carbon repairs are absolutely stronger structurally than the original frame was.
Speaker A:You just end up with basically a wrap in a given spot of where the damage was.
Speaker B:Okay, so back to my experience.
Speaker B:I knew the bike would fit me because I know I have a Specialized and I already know what size I ride.
Speaker B:So I felt quite comfortable with the components were on there.
Speaker B:I could see the pictures.
Speaker B:I knew what kind of cosmetic issues there were.
Speaker B:Went in and picked up this bike.
Speaker B:And I want to say I knew what this bike retailed for when it was new and I was paying less than half.
Speaker B:And I have to tell you now, after riding it several times, I am tickled pink.
Speaker B:It was a great experience.
Speaker B:It was super easy to make the whole purchase come through.
Speaker B:When I went into the shop, I was actually able to get.
Speaker B:They had some XTR pedals that I was able to pick up super cheap.
Speaker B:I got some bottle cages in there.
Speaker B:I was able to fit out the bike with everything else that I needed.
Speaker B:And yeah, just super happy with the whole experience.
Speaker B:Now, my friend that I referred to earlier on, I had referred him to buy his first road bike, had a very similar experience.
Speaker B:He lives in North Carol.
Speaker B:So for him, he was buying it completely remotely, sight unseen.
Speaker B:His bike arrived exactly as described and he's had a great experience as well.
Speaker B:So I would unequivocally recommend a purchase through the pro's closet.
Speaker B:If it's something that you are considering and have any concerns about, I would tell you that a really an excellent experience.
Speaker B:They were also very available when I had questions.
Speaker B:I was able to ask questions about the bike and get answers almost immediately.
Speaker B:So it was really a great experience throughout the day through now.
Speaker B:What if you want to sell?
Speaker B:I actually have.
Speaker B:My kids have outgrown some of their bikes and I've got three bikes sitting in my garage.
Speaker B:And I keep saying to myself, you know what, I wonder if TPC would be interested in these.
Speaker B:So how do I go from I wonder if TPC would be interested in these to actually offloading them to you?
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:First, I'm ecstatic to hear that you're having a great experience with the bike and that it's working out well for you're one of the lucky ones who lives here on the front rail range.
Speaker A:You can come to our Thornton hq, you can throw a leg over, give a bike a spin around the parking lot, make sure it's the right bike for you before you buy it.
Speaker A:But yeah, really happy that you're you had a great experience.
Speaker A:For people selling it's super simple.
Speaker A:On our website, one of the main menu navigation options is just called Sell trade and that steers you down a process of taking a couple of photos of your bike.
Speaker A:We also take frames and wheel bikes, frames and wheels.
Speaker A:So you can take a couple photos to minute it to a US and typically within 24 hours we're getting back to you.
Speaker A:We do an instant cash offer, a store credit offer.
Speaker A:If you're interested in spending the dollars back with us, we'll slightly incentivize that that equation to make sure you're getting the best bang for your buck.
Speaker A:If you just want to buy your next bike from us as well.
Speaker A:And then we also do a consignment model just like we, we have done forever.
Speaker A:But basically we'll take the bike, put it through our process, list it on our site and then when it sells, pay you out a cut on the actual sale.
Speaker A:So we try to make it as easy as possible.
Speaker A:We provide a prepaid shipping label to get the bike to us.
Speaker A:We leave it up to the customer to get the bike safely into a box to ship it to us.
Speaker A:And it's probably 50, 50 between customers who either have the means or can get their hands on a box and are familiar enough with packing up a bike or they just take it to their local bike shops.
Speaker A:And most shops will pack a bike up for a fee, a reasonable fee.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And are there any products you won't accept?
Speaker B:Are there any bikes, children's bikes for example, 650 wheels, those kinds of things.
Speaker B:Are there any things that just, you know, right across the board you won't take it?
Speaker A:More comes down to the value threshold.
Speaker A: ve a resale value of at least: Speaker A:So that will generally exclude almost all kids bikes.
Speaker A:There are definitely some high end full suspension kids, mountain bikes, 24 inch mountain bikes that we'll still make an offer on because.
Speaker A:Because they're expensive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But yeah, generally we don't categorically decline anything.
Speaker A:It's mostly based on what the potential resale value is.
Speaker A:So we we're largely sticking to bikes from the last, say 10 model years and bikes that are, let's call it endemic bike industry brands, Trek, Specialized, Cervelo, Santa Cruz versus the kind of more entry level if you, if you will, rad powers of the world.
Speaker A:That kind of.
Speaker A:Yeah, same.
Speaker B:Got it.
Speaker B:Okay, so let's shift the conversation then to what my listeners probably really want to hear, which is triathlon and what percentage of your inventory are triathlon focused bikes?
Speaker A:It's pretty, it's slim, it's about 10% of our inventory are TT or triathlon bikes.
Speaker A:But I can share our experience with, with selling triathlon bikes.
Speaker A:They sell about twice as fast as any other category of bike.
Speaker A:When triathlon bikes do come through our business, we always sell them quickly.
Speaker A:I and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Speaker A:My intuition has always been that during the pandemic all the triathlon events got shut down for a time period.
Speaker A:The bike industry reacted and peeled back on most of their production of TT and triathlon bikes which as triathlons have come back onto the market.
Speaker A:There's a dearth of inventory available for people who are, are either shopping for a high end triathlon bike or their first triathlon bike.
Speaker A:I think maybe even more importantly the latter.
Speaker A:I feel like there are very few options if you're looking to do your first triathlon or maybe buy your first proper TT bike.
Speaker A:The barrier to entry price point wise is extremely high in the primary market.
Speaker A:So when we have a three year old Cervelo P series bike, when it comes through our business, it always sells super.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that and I totally understand and I would see exactly what you're saying because my experience has been all of the bikes have moved to this very high end price point and it's really disheartening because telling people that oh, you're only going to have to spend this much on a bike is no longer the case.
Speaker B:You can tell people, yeah, listen, you can get a road bike and absolutely.
Speaker B:But the problem is you show up in transition and it's all about oh, look at all the fancy toys everybody has.
Speaker B:But then when people start looking into what it costs to get one of those fancy toys, it's obscene.
Speaker B:And I listen, like I said at the beginning, I am fortunate that I have the resources and I have one of those obscene priced bikes.
Speaker B:So I'm not going to pretend that I don't.
Speaker B:But I have a friend who wanted to get a replacement bike and looking for a bike that was reasonably priced was just impossible.
Speaker B:Their own marketing at this very high end consumer.
Speaker B:And I think it's because as you said, when the triathlons all peeled back and there was sudden there was always a niche market to begin with but when that market dried up, they just abandoned the entry level and it's really a problem.
Speaker B:And so I have told, I've counseled a lot of people, don't spend money on a TT bike until you know you're going to be doing this, get a road bike, slap on some aero bars.
Speaker B:But people, and I understand why they don't like that.
Speaker B:It's not as comfortable, they're not set up for that.
Speaker B:And so it is a problem and it's a little bit disheartening to hear that you are afflicted by the same inventory issues.
Speaker B:And I'm not surprised that when bikes come through they are out of there.
Speaker B:But it is a reminder to my own experience with TPC which was I wanted a gravel bike and I wanted a reasonably priced gravel bike, but that it was going to be a good performer.
Speaker B:So I was willing to get a little bit older bike bike that was gonna be in my price point but that was gonna be a good bike.
Speaker B:And so I was willing to wait.
Speaker B:And so I started looking back in November and I just would keep looking and I set up alerts you can, on the TPC website you could set up a saved search and it will email you every time a bike that comes in fits your search profile.
Speaker B:So it's easy to do if you're patient, you could set it up and so that you will get a notification and if you're, you're on the ball, you can pounce.
Speaker B:When that bike that you're looking for comes in, you want to come work for us.
Speaker A:You're doing a great job selling our service.
Speaker B:That's because I had such a good experience.
Speaker B:I'm very hesitant.
Speaker B:I know I sound like a sales pitch person but.
Speaker B:And I am hesitant to use this program that way because I never do this.
Speaker B:But I just had such a good experience and I know that your service is something that triathletes can really benefit from from and it's really, it's unfortunate that you don't have a higher number of bikes.
Speaker B:But I want people to know that you do get bikes coming through and I want them to know how to avail themselves of the service because I am so focused on getting people into our sport and I know that the price of the bike is a major barrier for entry and it really makes me sad.
Speaker B:You know, you guys here is really a important.
Speaker A:Yeah, thanks for saying that.
Speaker A:I'm glad you pointed out the save search function, especially for the triathletes.
Speaker A:So our business, the way the numbers shake out.
Speaker A:Right now about a hundred bikes a week are coming in the door and going out the door.
Speaker A:So at any given time.
Speaker A:Right now We've got roughly 400 bikes listed on our site, but there's a hundred new ones every week.
Speaker A:So that save search function is a great way to say I don't want to spend more than 2,500 bucks.
Speaker A:I want a Striathlon bike.
Speaker A:I'm a size medium and I want electronic shifting.
Speaker A:You can set up those safe search parameters and then anytime we list a bike that fits those parameters, you'll get an email.
Speaker A:So it's a great way to stay on top of that inventory that's constantly turning.
Speaker A:And I think I'll also evangelize for the benefits of our model, allowing customers to slowly step up and grow their the quality of their bike with their triathlon experience.
Speaker A:I'm sure there's a lot of riders who are one and two done, but there are plenty of people who get into triathlon just like cycling or running or any other sport and become obsessed with it.
Speaker A:And so you go from riding a road bike with clip ons to buying a 6 year old PC or P series bike with 105, to getting a bike with Ultiger, to getting a bike with Dura.
Speaker A:So it's the pros closet because we buy and sell will make you fair offers on your old bike and you can spend those dollars on either a new bike in the primary market if that's what you want to get, or you can get another used one from us and just grow your bike with your experience.
Speaker B:Yeah, I really like that.
Speaker B:That's a nice way to roll over and you take back bikes you've sold.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If someone has used a bike and it still retains value, you'll take back the bike and they can trade up to new one, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:I should mention we walk through what we do with inspecting for carbon repair, but every bike goes through the refurbishment process.
Speaker A:If it needs new chain, needs new brake pads, needs new tires, we're doing that Work, work.
Speaker A:And then every bike that we sell comes with a 30 day, no questions asked return policy.
Speaker A:So you can make sure that the bike fits.
Speaker A:For your friend in North Carolina, that's a great benefit for him to be able to get the bike, make sure that it that it rides well and it's exactly the right size for him.
Speaker A:And then beyond that, we have what we call guaranteed buyback, no matter what going out it definitely into the future.
Speaker A:We'll always make an offer to buy back any bike that has been purchased from the pro Score closet.
Speaker B:All right, that's awesome.
Speaker B:I want to take some of the time we have left and learn a little bit more about you.
Speaker B:You were a former pro cyclist, so tell us what you did as a pro cyclist.
Speaker B:What was the highlights of your career?
Speaker B:And yeah, how did that all come to be?
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A: ate runner and I graduated in: Speaker A:It was the height of the Lance era.
Speaker A:My running experience was I was decent, but I could see the clear ceiling of how good I was going to be be.
Speaker A:And in my 20s, I threw a leg over a bike and started racing.
Speaker A:And due to having a decent aerobic engine from, from being a runner, I immediately could climb really well and kind of jumped through the amateur ranks.
Speaker A:And then I, I basically spent my 20s as a domestic pro road cyclist.
Speaker A:So in that era there were a ton of great races.
Speaker A:Road cycling has kind of struggled here in the US over the last 10 to 20 years, but before that there was Tour California, Tour Georgia.
Speaker A:There was regional races all over the place.
Speaker A:I made, made some semblance of a professional career.
Speaker A:I did not make much money, but I got to race my bike all over the country, had a blast, made, made great friends, ultimately ended up moving to Boulder.
Speaker A:I'm from North Carolina originally, but ultimately ended up moving to to Boulder for to be at altitude and to train with the, the network of cyclists at Boulder.
Speaker A:And that was how I got introduced to Nick and the other original partner, Pete Lepento of the Pros Club at.
Speaker A:And when I hit my 30s, I realized I was never going to make it to the Tour de France.
Speaker A:And I was in some ways just putting off the rest of my life by continuing to try and hack it as a road cyclist.
Speaker A:And so I pulled the plug and started working for TPC back then.
Speaker B:That's a good story.
Speaker B:I like that because it's just an example of how your life doesn't have to go in a straight line from point A to point B.
Speaker B:There can be a lot of climbs and descents along the way.
Speaker B:My son, avid runner right now, but loves cycling and he's a very talented cycle cyclist.
Speaker B:He often talks about wanting to take some time from after college to just try riding.
Speaker B:And I keep telling him, I'm like, I don't know you don't have any experience riding, but when I hear your story of just picking it up at your 20s and becoming a pro, maybe he's got a shot.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:We'll have to see where he can go.
Speaker A:It definitely took time to develop, I'd say bike racing skills plus the strategy of bike racing plus just all around bike skills.
Speaker A:But I had this engine so that allowed me and it sounds like your son is probably in a similar bucket if you have the engine that can go a long way.
Speaker B:Yeah, have him listen to this so he can be encouraged.
Speaker B:Justin, where can people learn more about the pros closet?
Speaker B:The processes, the inventory, things like that?
Speaker A:For sure, we're online@the.com and then anybody who's here on the Front Range or visiting Colorado can always swing by our Thornton, Colorado Toronto headquarters.
Speaker A:We've got a small retail space and we're open Monday through Saturday here.
Speaker B:And what does the future look like for the company?
Speaker B:I know you've talked about more sustainable growth, but what are the short and medium term plans?
Speaker A:Yeah, great question.
Speaker A:I think we're targeting organic growth from here.
Speaker A:I kind of mentioned we're at the point where about a hundred bikes a week go in and out the door.
Speaker A:That puts us in a very healthy position financially.
Speaker A:And from here we're targeting just steady organic growth growth.
Speaker A:This summer and fall we're working with both shift events here in Colorado.
Speaker A:So that's the triple bypass, the Bailey Hondo, a few other key events, and then we're working with the Colorado High School Mountain Bike League in the fall to make a direct connection with the Front Range cycling community.
Speaker A:And beyond that, in the coming years, we'll look to expand that event experience more broadly outside of Colorado.
Speaker A:But really we're just looking to continue to deliver a great experience for customers when they're either buying or selling a used bike.
Speaker A:And I think that's the core of what we do and what we're going to look to continue to do.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:You've been, as I said, through my experience, been doing a great job of it so far.
Speaker B:I look forward to your continued success.
Speaker B:And if you have, as a listener, had an experience with the Pro's closet, I hope you'll let us know.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear about it.
Speaker B:You can email me@tridocloud.com or you can head over to the private Facebook group for the podcast if you're not already a member.
Speaker B:I hope that you'll answer the three easy questions.
Speaker B:I'll gain you admittance.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear your experience or any questions you might have on this subject.
Speaker B:And of course, any suggestions for guests on future episodes.
Speaker B:Justin, thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker B:I really appreciated having you on the program and talking about the pro's closet and I wish you nothing but continued success.
Speaker A:Thanks Jeff.
Speaker A:Really appreciate it.
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